35 WHELEN

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

What do ya'll think of the 35 Whelen? I was always told was the poor mans magnum. Right now can get a cva scout for about 400 from Buds. I reload so would be no problem

 

[Savage30L]

I'd like to have one, but both loaded ammo and brass have been pretty hard to find lately. You can fire-form one from a 30-06 case, but that seems like a lot of trouble, especially since you can load 200 or even 220-grain bullets into a 30-06.

 

[Roverguy]

In the days when the 35 Whelen was developed, traditional cup and core bullets had a reputation of not performing brilliantly, especially high velocity loads at short range, which will have frequently been the case with America’s darling at the time, the 30-06. 35 Whelen offered additional bullet weight to aid penetration but also delivered slower velocities, at which prevailing cup and core technology may well have performed better. Certainly, .358” 250 grs bullets deliver more energy than .308 200 grs bullets. But in this day and age, 200-220 grs bullets from 30-06 should do the job on any game that the 35 Whelen would be used on. So, I will discourage nobody from getting/building a rifle in 35 Whelen. But, if it’s because you think 30-06 isn’t enough, the next real step up in my view is 375 H&H or 375 Ruger, the latter available in a standard length action if that matters.

 

[jmr40]

It looks good on paper vs 30-06 because any time you shoot equal weight bullets in a larger caliber with similar powder charges the larger caliber bullet will be faster. That results in more speed and energy AT THE MUZZLE. The problem is that a 200 gr bullet from a 35 Whelen will not penetrate as deep in a game animal as a 200 gr 30-06 bullet. And while the 200 gr 35 Whelen bullet starts out faster, the more aerodynamic 30-06 bullet will quickly catch up. Beyond about 200 yards the 30-06 shoots flatter, hits with more velocity and penetrates deeper assuming equal bullet weights.

Most people only think of 30-06 with 150-165 gr bullets and 180 gr is the heaviest commonly available in factory loads. But 200-250 gr bullets are available especially for hand loaders. If you compare 225-250 gr 35 Whelen loads to 180 gr 30-06 then the 35 has an edge on larger game. But if you move up to 200-220 gr 30-06 bullets the edge moves back to 30-06.

To a lot of people 35 caliber just seems a lot larger than 30 caliber. But just for perspective, a dime is thicker than the difference between a .358 bullet and a .308 bullet. It's not that a 35 caliber hole is that much bigger. Moving to a larger caliber allows you to go to heavier bullets. But if you are using similar bullet weights, the smaller caliber always wins.

Most people don't go that heavy, but the 35 Whelen with 270 gr or heavier bullets starts to pull away from 30-06 at close range, but it also loses its long-range versatility.

That doesn't mean the 35 W is a bad choice. With lighter 180-200 gr bullets its trajectory isn't much different than 30-06 with 165-180 gr bullets. It isn't just a short-range big game cartridge. Another plus among hand loaders is using very light loads using bullets intended for 357 mag pistols for small game hunting and plinking.

If someone just wants a 35 Whelen instead of a 30-06 they will both do virtually the same thing. It's just that the 30-06 does it with less recoil and fuss.

Right now can get a cva scout for about 400 from Buds. I reload so would be no problem

Just bear in mind that 35 Whelen recoil is almost identical to 300 WM. That might be a problem in a light rifle.

 

[Chuck R.]

The 35Whelen is having a bit of resurgence thanks to the states that mandate .35 cal or larger.

The guys that love the mid-bores love them, the guys that say it has no advantage over a .308 don't. It's not going to change, just like the 30-30 guys and 35Rem guys going at it.

How the upgrade in bullet technology helped the 30s and bypassed the .358s escapes me but there's are some very good, higher BC bullets available such as the Nosler 225 AB and the Nosler 225 Partition. Then there are the Barnes bullets which somehow manage to get through animals even with their modest SDs due to their relative lightweight VS diameter.

IMHO Bullet construction trumps SD, and once you get complete penetration, that extra SD is going into the ground or a tree. The 35W does carry more energy, with a 225 at 2700+ (easily doable) it's just about as flat shooting as a 30-06 with a 180 grn.

Why is it that SD fans always discount or don't take into consideration frontal diameter??? A dimes difference in diameter doesn't matter but .08 delta in SD does??

Recoil with similar bullet weights is going to be a toss-up. I seriously doubt anyone can feal a difference in the couple more grains of powder the 35W will hold.

Just to put to bed the whole flatter shooting thing, using Nosler load data from their website:

30-06, 220 Nolser Partition (.331 SD) Max velocity they list is 2602 FPS

30-06 Springfield Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

www.nosler.com

.35Whelen, 225 Nolser Partition (.251SD), max MV is 2806, but we'll use 2740 cause the .35W test barrel was 26" VS 24" for the 30-06 and I don't want to give the lumbering 35W a false advantage, so I subtracted 30 FPS per inch. It's a little high, but it's not going to matter.

35 Whelen Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

www.nosler.com

Gives the 30-06 a MPBR of 288yds on an 8" kill zone and at 500 yds 1166LBs of energy

The "ballistically handicapped" 35Whelen has a MPBR of 307yds on the same 8" kill zone and 1842 lbs of energy at 500 yds

Drop for the 35W 225 load at 500 yds with a 200yd zero is 47"
Drop for the 30-06 220 load at 500 is 59.4" with the same 200yd zero

So for rough numbers.. 12" less drop and around 650lbs more energy at 500yds, beyond what most guys are shooting game at.

You can cherry pick some higher BC bullets in .308, but a 140FPS advantage isn't going away in 200yds, or 300yds. Yes you can load the 30-06 slightly hotter, but there's guys reporting 2900 with 225s and TAC.

Data courtesy of Strelok Pro.... using the same weather/temp.

Couple of points for the OP.

Factory 35W ammo is underloaded due to the older guns, pumps and autos.
There are lots of ballistic programs on line, don't believe me, run your own data.

 

[1948CJ2A]

Love mine. I picked up an old 1903 Springfield circa 1918 or 1919 with a Pederson device cutout on the left side of the received, which is kinda neat. I sent it off to JES Reboring and Jesse re-bored it to 35 cal, headspaced and sent it on back to me. It shoots great. I also reload and worked up a load it really liked using 225 gr Sierra Game Kings. Can't recall the charge off the top of my head but I can dig it up later if you're interested.

I was so pleased with the way the Whelen turned out, I sent JES another 1903 Springfield, this time a Smith-Corona A3 model and had them bore and chamber to 9.3x62.

 

[wombat13]

The 35Whelen is having a bit of resurgence thanks to the states that mandate .35 cal or larger.

The guys that love the mid-bores love them, the guys that say it has no advantage over a .308 don't. It's not going to change, just like the 30-30 guys and 35Rem guys going at it.

How the upgrade in bullet technology helped the 30s and bypassed the .358s escapes me but there's are some very good, higher BC bullets available such as the Nosler 225 AB and the Nosler 225 Partition. Then there are the Barnes bullets which somehow manage to get through animals even with their modest SDs due to their relative lightweight VS diameter.

IMHO Bullet construction trumps SD, and once you get complete penetration, that extra SD is going into the ground or a tree. The 35W does carry more energy, with a 225 at 2700+ (easily doable) it's just about as flat shooting as a 30-06 with a 180 grn.

Why is it that SD fans always discount or don't take into consideration frontal diameter??? A dimes difference in diameter doesn't matter but .08 delta in SD does??

Recoil with similar bullet weights is going to be a toss-up. I seriously doubt anyone can feal a difference in the couple more grains of powder the 35W will hold.

Just to put to bed the whole flatter shooting thing, using Nosler load data from their website:

30-06, 220 Nolser Partition (.331 SD) Max velocity they list is 2602 FPS

30-06 Springfield Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

www.nosler.com

.35Whelen, 225 Nolser Partition (.251SD), max MV is 2806, but we'll use 2740 cause the .35W test barrel was 26" VS 24" for the 30-06 and I don't want to give the lumbering 35W a false advantage, so I subtracted 30 FPS per inch. It's a little high, but it's not going to matter.

35 Whelen Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

www.nosler.com

Gives the 30-06 a MPBR of 288yds on an 8" kill zone and at 500 yds 1166LBs of energy

The "ballistically handicapped" 35Whelen has a MPBR of 307yds on the same 8" kill zone and 1842 lbs of energy at 500 yds

Drop for the 35W 225 load at 500 yds with a 200yd zero is 47"
Drop for the 30-06 220 load at 500 is 59.4" with the same 200yd zero

So for rough numbers.. 12" less drop and around 650lbs more energy at 500yds, beyond what most guys are shooting game at.

You can cherry pick some higher BC bullets in .308, but a 140FPS advantage isn't going away in 200yds, or 300yds. Yes you can load the 30-06 slightly hotter, but there's guys reporting 2900 with 225s and TAC.

Data courtesy of Strelok Pro.... using the same weather/temp.

Couple of points for the OP.

Factory 35W ammo is underloaded due to the older guns, pumps and autos.
There are lots of ballistic programs on line, don't believe me, run your own data.

That's an informative comparison. Also, we have to remember that area (and therefore volume of the wound channel) increases with the square of the radius. So even though the .358 is only 16% wider than .308, the frontal area is 35% wider. This is the same difference in frontal area as the jump from .264 to .308. Are 6.5mm and .308 bullets basically the same?

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I do have the P. O, Ackley two volumn set on his cartridges, let me check what the man said about his 35 whelen improved, or 35 AI AND HE STATES THE 35 WHELEN CAN BE FIRED TO MAKE CASES FOR HIS 35 WHELEN AI

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

From what I have read, the 9.3x62 is slightly more versitale than the 35 whelen, with more bullet selection, and heavier bullets, but within 200 yards, I doubt any game hit with it will know the difference

 

[Savage30L]

From what I have read, the 9.3x62 is slightly more versitale than the 35 whelen, with more bullet selection, and heavier bullets, but within 200 yards, I doubt any game hit with it will know the difference

I think it's the other way around....hard to find light bullets for the 9.3 in the U.S. Unless you use cast bullets.

Here's a good article on that cartridge, if you want to do some in-depth reading....

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/9.3x62.html

 

[Chuck R.]

I think it's the other way around....hard to find light bullets for the 9.3 in the U.S. Unless you use cast bullets.

Here's a good article on that cartridge, if you want to do some in-depth reading....

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/9.3x62.html

1. The dedicated bush / woods deer hunter looking for extra punch from a wider bore on lean game. This hunter does not want to tackle large animals but instead needs increased power to overcome shot placement error as naturally occurs when hunting in ‘the thick stuff’. Again, there are not a great many bullet options in this bore diameter for hunting lighter bodied deer. A plain and simple Interlock or Pro-hunter 250 grain round nose would handle both punch and penetration issues - if such a bullet existed. Those looking for bush power ‘wow’ will need to choose bullets carefully.

I like that reasoning!

That's an informative comparison. Also, we have to remember that area (and therefore volume of the wound channel) increases with the square of the radius. So even though the .358 is only 16% wider than .308, the frontal area is 35% wider. This is the same difference in frontal area as the jump from .264 to .308. Are 6.5mm and .308 bullets basically the same?

Agree 100% it's what's often lacking in these discussions. There's a lot of variables that go into "effectiveness", but we often seem to focus on just a couple. For instance, I really love a high BC bullet, but honestly, for about 90% of the animals I take, it doesn't play a role.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | 5 Reasons Round Nose Bullets Are Still Cool

In this age of ballistic superiority, where our projectiles more closely resemble the Apollo-era spacecraft, where the bullet continues to evolve in both shape and method of construction, the round nose projectile is often overlooked as if it were a relic of a bygone era. Don't let that fool...

www.americanhunter.org

 

[1948CJ2A]

From what I have read, the 9.3x62 is slightly more versitale than the 35 whelen, with more bullet selection, and heavier bullets, but within 200 yards, I doubt any game hit with it will know the difference

The Whelen has a longer neck than the 9.3x62, which increases case capacity on the 9.3 but at the same time that allows the bullet to encroach on that extra case capacity, more so obviously with larger projectiles. Everything I've read on the 9.3x62 says the 286gr bullet was made for that cartridge... so that said I picked up some Hornady soft points in that weight.

In the end, both the 35 Whelen and 9.3x62 Mauser are excellent choices in their own regard, and while the applications overlap in many instances, the one advantage the 9.3x62 has over the Whelen is for Dangerous game hunting where minimal bore regulations exist. I suggest owning both!

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I think that is a good suggestion, I remember when the whelen was compared to the 350 Remington mag, instead of the 9.3x62 and for a standard length action, or single shot, they are both awesome. In the US, the only dangerous game would be the large bears in Alaska, and Moose. Moose kills and hurts more people in Alaska, that the bears do. But they do have grizzly , brown, polar, and smaller black bears, and when they have cubs, they are all dangerous.

 

[Savage30L]

I like that reasoning!



Agree 100% it's what's often lacking in these discussions. There's a lot of variables that go into "effectiveness", but we often seem to focus on just a couple. For instance, I really love a high BC bullet, but honestly, for about 90% of the animals I take, it doesn't play a role.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | 5 Reasons Round Nose Bullets Are Still Cool

In this age of ballistic superiority, where our projectiles more closely resemble the Apollo-era spacecraft, where the bullet continues to evolve in both shape and method of construction, the round nose projectile is often overlooked as if it were a relic of a bygone era. Don't let that fool...

www.americanhunter.org

I've been thinking of getting some Hornady 180-grain round nose bullets for my 30-06. I've killed a good many deer over the years and the farthest away I ever shot one was 80 yards.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

Here in south ALABAMA, average white tail dresses out at about 100 lbs. Guess that is why they let you get one a day, with no tags. A lot of folks here use 243 and nothing larger. Oh yeah, and they use a lot of tree stands.
I never hunted like that, was always stalk hunting, is the way we had to learn out west. A lot of people here use dogs to deer hunt, and that is something else I have never done. Just does not seem fair to me.

 

[chickasaw_hunter]

I got my 700 BDL 35 Whelen in '89, or at least that's when my handloading log starts. I've never shot a factory round out of it. Back in those days of yore finding factory ammo and even 35 caliber bullets were sometimes hard to find. You couldn't just push a button on a computer and order up loading supplies. Yeah, I know it was up hill both ways and it snowed everyday. I just finished up some brass prep this morning. That ole 700 is still going strong. It's accounted for about a dozen elk and a few less deer. When Marlin was busy going out of business and dumping NEF I found a .35 W Handi Rifle. I couldn't help myself it was priced at less than $150. I've never used it to hunt, but it stands ready as a backup. I wish the option to get a factory trigger job on it like in the good ole days was still possible, I did my best.
I've never used fancy bullets just those standard bullets I started with back in '89. The Sierra 225 was very accurate in my rifle and got the job done on elk. I mostly used Speer 250's and they too preformed well. Usually, what made my decision was what was available. I tried to use the Nosler 225 white tipped bullet, but my rifle didn't like it and didn't get close to what I could get out of the Sierra and Speers. I've had good luck with IMR 4064 and used that more than anything over the years, IMR 4895 has worked for me too. I had a friend who swore by RL-15. I've got some RL-15 to try. Last I tried I couldn't find any 4064, so I got the RL-15, we'll see how that works out.
I shoot mostly spitzer bullets, but that cuz that's what I usually found. I've also used round and flat nose bullets and they were just as good and worked well when bullet met critter. I got some overrun production 250 grain flat point bullets that had been made for the .356 Winchester. They shot great and did great on game. I've always read that the advantage of a spitzer doesn't really kick in until about 300 yards. So no problems for me I don't kid myself that I'm going to be taking any 300+ yard shots on anything. I'm a big fan of the .35 Whelen.

 

[adcoch1]

My main reason for owning a 35 whelen comes from its balance shooting cast bullets. With range scrap and a gas check you can almost run them maxed out in the case. And the diameter is big enough to not be too worried about expansion if your alloy is too hard. Mine likes nosler pointy bullets too. It's fun to have a 35 cal rifle!

 

[Gun-Reck]

Was vacillating between re-boring an old long action M700 rifle in either .338 A-Square or .35 Whelen.

But came across a very nice 9.3x62mm rifle, and that killed that.

The flexibility of shooting handgun bullets as well was always intriguing.

 

[DMW1116]

If I had any reason at all to own one of the CVA rifles, I'd have one. I've always had an unhealthy fascination with the 35 Whelen. I don't hunt anymore and haven't hunted anything but small game anyway. I am somewhat enamored with cast bullets and would shoot as heavy a cast bullet as I could get for a 35 Whelen. I also hand load and like to stretch out the versatility of various cartridges. I run everything from 110 grain FMJ bullets to 165 grain cast and coated (C&C) bullets in my 30-30. However, I just can't justify the cost for something that would be so expensive to shoot. A CVA in 44 Mag is a different story, but still no use for one.

 

[tdbmd]

What do ya'll think of the 35 Whelen? I was always told was the poor mans magnum. Right now can get a cva scout for about 400 from Buds. I reload so would be no problem

I have been shooting the .35 Whelen for almost 25 years. It has been to several western states and Alberta as well as to Africa twice. I think it is a great cartridge. Good power without an excessive amount of recoil.

 

[Robert]

I've always wanted a 35 Whelen, I bought a 375 H&H instead. If I tripped over a nice 35 Whelen in a Model 70, and I had money, I'd probably buy it. But not because it does anything better than my 375, I just kinda want one.

 

[eastbank]

i used a MS 9.3x62 on this buffalo, but i also think a 35 whelen with the same weight bullet would have killed it just as dead.

 

[adcoch1]

i used a MS 9.3x62 on this buffalo, but i also think a 35 whelen with the same weight bullet would have killed it just as dead.

Someday I will hunt some bovine species with my 35 whelen. Maybe bison once I get to Montana...

 

[GooseGestapo]

Here in south ALABAMA, average white tail dresses out at about 100 lbs. Guess that is why they let you get one a day, with no tags. A lot of folks here use 243 and nothing larger. Oh yeah, and they use a lot of tree stands.
I never hunted like that, was always stalk hunting, is the way we had to learn out west. A lot of people here use dogs to deer hunt, and that is something else I have never done. Just does not seem fair to me.

Hunting them with dogs doesn’t seem fair till you do it. It’s rather thrilling when you do. It’s not nearly as easy as it would seem. Expensive too!
The deer over centuries have learned to evade canine predators. Add to that hominids with bang sticks! The deer know when the pick-up door, and tail-gate slams on a frosty morning EXACTLY what’s happening, and generally know exactly what and where to go to avoid the hunters and elude the dogs. BTDT, and even in Mobile Co. Al.

I’ve killed more than my fair share of deer with .22cf’s in Ga-Al. (And one in Mobile, Co. circa 1981 with an ‘06). Though I prefer a .35Remington, a .35Whelen has always appealed to me.
A CVA in .35W can be loaded with a .358” cast bullet from .38spl level to near .375H&Hmag.
I say go for it!
And, BTW, it isn’t one-a-day anymore. In fact you could hang me for that. I had a LONG conversation with the Al Commissioner of DNR at the time the change was made. I went to school at Auburn at the same time he did. We casually knew each other. He was several years ahead of me. I answered a questionnaire sent out regarding harvest/opinions. I’d admitted to legally taking 17 deer in AL the previous season. He determined it was me, and contacted me. I provided him with documentation and further contacts with Georgia DNR on how we were/had been doing it. (I had retired several years earlier). Alabama implemented a similar system on limits and reporting harvest. They now have a much better grasp/handle on their deer management. Still very generous limits, and two a day! During doe/antlerless days/seasons.

 

[Robert]

A CVA in .35W can be loaded with a .358” cast bullet from .38spl level to near .375H&Hmag.

What bullet weight and what velocity? I'm pushing 270gr bullets around 2700fps in my 375.