My wife of 45 years is smart because she has never made me choose between my reloading or her.
357 Cast Loads
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Bazoo
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Those are some beautiful cartridges and bullets. Nice crimps.
The Lee 258 RFP GC added... whats that? How did you add a gas check? We are talking about the Lee 358-158-RF that is a bevel based bullet correct?
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@Bazoo
I've added checks two different ways:
1 - easier w/ bevel based bullets. Start the check square on the work bench top then use a flat jaw bench vise to push the check onto the bullet. Run it upside down through a lee sizing die. Use care not to crush the bullet in the vise. Use needle nosed pliers to hold the bulket straight and use the center of the vise so the jaws load square.
2 - Use a 357 collet bullet puller to size down the base then put the check on, lube, and size.
I use #2 more as this method lets you work with more bullet types. I think lyman used to sell a check seater type of pliers but don't know if they still do - I've heard about them but have yet to run across one.
You have to work at these a while - practice makes perfect.
I've added checks two different ways:
1 - easier w/ bevel based bullets. Start the check square on the work bench top then use a flat jaw bench vise to push the check onto the bullet. Run it upside down through a lee sizing die. Use care not to crush the bullet in the vise. Use needle nosed pliers to hold the bulket straight and use the center of the vise so the jaws load square.
2 - Use a 357 collet bullet puller to size down the base then put the check on, lube, and size.
I use #2 more as this method lets you work with more bullet types. I think lyman used to sell a check seater type of pliers but don't know if they still do - I've heard about them but have yet to run across one.
You have to work at these a while - practice makes perfect.
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AJC1
Member
The more of the process you control the less others get to screw up what you want to do. Funny the money thing, I sure don't save money but junior shoots a lot....Never have saved a dime in 60 years of shooting and 34 years of reloading, just shoot more and more.
Bazoo
Member
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Sounds like it might be worth a try. I especially like the sound of #2.
We used Wax gas checks on plain base bullets years ago, but could never really see any difference, guy's also Aluminum and Copper plain base gas checks too.
I just never tried them.
Bazoo
Member
I actually ran into a big box of the wax gas check material some years back and gave it away on the Castboolit forum.
I like the nose profile of the Lee 358-158-RF, and I've shot a couple hundred that had been gifted to me to try, but I can't get past the bevel base. If I had a Star sizer, it wouldn't be an issue, or if I powder coated, but since I primarily use a lyman 450, bevel bases don't work so well.
I like the nose profile of the Lee 358-158-RF, and I've shot a couple hundred that had been gifted to me to try, but I can't get past the bevel base. If I had a Star sizer, it wouldn't be an issue, or if I powder coated, but since I primarily use a lyman 450, bevel bases don't work so well.
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The 158 FP is an accurate bullet when you push it hard in a carbine but a gas check is a must. I also use lynan moly lube - its good on up the 2300-2500 fps with a gas check. The 358-158fp doesn't run well in my marlin with the barrel liner but all the others do (snags). It's hard not to run the 125s though for deer with the near 1500 ft lbs on energy at the muzzle.
This is the first season I am going to try the 125s so time will tell. You still need to stay inside 100yrds but more energy is still there at that range. I have used 158 xtps for years but the price is just to high for a handgun bullet - for me anyway. The xtps tend to stick in the hide on the other side over 75 yrds and fragment under 50 at carbine speeds.
I have no idea why the mold makers don't sell GC molds for the lighter bullets where they are needed. They sell a 158 SWC GC but I can't get accuracy with it for some reason especially at higher velocities.
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AJC1
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Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds
www.accuratemolds.com
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I may have to give that one a try looks interesting.Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds
Bazoo
Member
I appreciate you sharing your experiences. It's been years since I ran some loads through a Marlin 1894. Most recently, I've been shooting a friend's Rossi 92 carbine with my handloads, using a full pressure load of W296 and an RCBS 38-150-SWC. It shoots clean and has been accurate with the limited testing I've done.
AJC1
Member
Look through their catalog. I'm fond of the Lee cone points but they have a ton of choices.
That Lee 158 RF is pretty accurate out of a GP100 just going about 800 fps, 15 yards, 50 rounds as fast as I can load and shoot them. Working on my USPSA shooting because going from Bullseye to that is way different. Using that bullet and roll crimp for ease of speed loading. Never use a roll crimp very much, mostly use a taper crimp because for Me if you don't trim the cases roll crimp is a wast of time. So, I am trimming couple hundred 357 cases.
41 Mag
Member
I have found the MP molds to be top end. The one listed below is offered in a GC version as well as the plain base.
MP 360-640 Light SOLID 4 Cavity Mold (Multi Choice)
And yes I also find that cast can be a bit addictive...
One rainy Saturday and 70# worth..
MP 360-640 Light SOLID 4 Cavity Mold (Multi Choice)
And yes I also find that cast can be a bit addictive...
One rainy Saturday and 70# worth..
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OP
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Update and info share -
Recently added 45 colt cast. 255 SWC - lymans Keith type mould.
Anyway long story short - I'm using new trimmed casul cases w/ SRPs. Even though I saw no difference in gas seal between 45 and 454 cases - neither would seal, I annealed about 3/4" on the end of the cases and this eminated the smutty cases and cruded chamber holes. The powder burn is cleaner with much less powder specks in the bore (A#5).
I want to say I'm a little over 14kpsi and closer to 15 - if you run higher than 15kpsi a little less aneal, say 1/2", may work better or as well. My water depth in the pan was a little under an inch. If you want less anealed just run more water depth. I run MEP torch and med flame for about 6 seconds then knock case over one at a time.
At the same time, I was getting an SD of around 16 before anealing and now its around 7 w/ 10 shot stings. I run around 900fps in a ruger 5.5" and was able to reduce the charge by 3/10 and keep the same fps and same group size and placement. When I anealed I didn't take it to a red glow - just enough to get a dull finish in the end. Cases still come out okay but are a little tighter but still less than removing from a smutty chamber. Action stays cleaner also.
Anyway, thought I would share for guys getting blow by on lower pressure type ammo reloads and have experiance enough to tinker a little safely.
Cases look like - see post 43
Recently added 45 colt cast. 255 SWC - lymans Keith type mould.
Anyway long story short - I'm using new trimmed casul cases w/ SRPs. Even though I saw no difference in gas seal between 45 and 454 cases - neither would seal, I annealed about 3/4" on the end of the cases and this eminated the smutty cases and cruded chamber holes. The powder burn is cleaner with much less powder specks in the bore (A#5).
I want to say I'm a little over 14kpsi and closer to 15 - if you run higher than 15kpsi a little less aneal, say 1/2", may work better or as well. My water depth in the pan was a little under an inch. If you want less anealed just run more water depth. I run MEP torch and med flame for about 6 seconds then knock case over one at a time.
At the same time, I was getting an SD of around 16 before anealing and now its around 7 w/ 10 shot stings. I run around 900fps in a ruger 5.5" and was able to reduce the charge by 3/10 and keep the same fps and same group size and placement. When I anealed I didn't take it to a red glow - just enough to get a dull finish in the end. Cases still come out okay but are a little tighter but still less than removing from a smutty chamber. Action stays cleaner also.
Anyway, thought I would share for guys getting blow by on lower pressure type ammo reloads and have experiance enough to tinker a little safely.
Cases look like - see post 43
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My target load for my 357 carbine is 180gr hardcast (purchased from Bear Creek Supply) with 5.5gr of Titegroup. Consistent and accurate. I just got 1st place with 10 of 10 at my range's cast bullet shoot at 100 yds. This load is 1200ish so no need for a gas check. The bullets, primers and powder for this load only costs me .20.
Bearded Phil
Member
I've been playing with the GC HP version of this NOE mould this year, but I'm moving toward the PB solid version. These will get Hitek coated in the next month to 2 months or so. 33lbs, around 1250 bullets total.
360-182-WFN-U2 COWW alloy with 1% 95/5 Sn/Sb solder. Drops at 184-185gr.
360-182-WFN-U2 COWW alloy with 1% 95/5 Sn/Sb solder. Drops at 184-185gr.
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35 Whelen
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I would've gone broke long ago if I didn't cast, I really shoot that much! And I never worry about the cost of equipment. If a fella buys good, quality equipment and takes care of it, it will always have resale value.
I buy good molds- Lyman, Accurate, MP, NOE, etc. and take good care of them, so they have resale value. I have on more than one occasion bought a mold to cast a specific bullet, cast a few hundred, then clean the mold up and sell it for nearly what I gave for it. Makes for cheap bullets!
On the subject of sooty cases, as well all know, this is caused from chamber pressure that is insufficient to expand the case to seal the chamber walls, caused by using "not enough" of powder that burns "too slow", so to speak. The longer I load, the more I realize the benefits and flexibility of faster burning powders.
A couple of weeks ago I realized that I have LOTS of powders such as IMR-Target, Bullseye, Clays, HP38, etc., so I began experimenting with them in my .357's using 158 and 173 gr. cast SWC's. 6.0 gr. of IMR-Target netted 1140 fps with the 158 gr. SWC from a 4 3/4" barrel, and 1100 fps with the 173 gr. SWC. Velocities from my 20" Carbine were roughly 250 fps higher. 6.5 gr. of the same powder bumped the average velocity of the 158 to 1211. Pressure was such that the cases sealed in the chambers, ES's were in the teens, and velocities were achieved with about half the powder that would've been required of the slower powders.
35W
I buy good molds- Lyman, Accurate, MP, NOE, etc. and take good care of them, so they have resale value. I have on more than one occasion bought a mold to cast a specific bullet, cast a few hundred, then clean the mold up and sell it for nearly what I gave for it. Makes for cheap bullets!
On the subject of sooty cases, as well all know, this is caused from chamber pressure that is insufficient to expand the case to seal the chamber walls, caused by using "not enough" of powder that burns "too slow", so to speak. The longer I load, the more I realize the benefits and flexibility of faster burning powders.
A couple of weeks ago I realized that I have LOTS of powders such as IMR-Target, Bullseye, Clays, HP38, etc., so I began experimenting with them in my .357's using 158 and 173 gr. cast SWC's. 6.0 gr. of IMR-Target netted 1140 fps with the 158 gr. SWC from a 4 3/4" barrel, and 1100 fps with the 173 gr. SWC. Velocities from my 20" Carbine were roughly 250 fps higher. 6.5 gr. of the same powder bumped the average velocity of the 158 to 1211. Pressure was such that the cases sealed in the chambers, ES's were in the teens, and velocities were achieved with about half the powder that would've been required of the slower powders.
35W
IWAC
Member
When I first started casting, My "alloy" was wheelweights, with 50-50 lead solder added, in a ratio that I hoped was within shouting distance of Lyman #2. All heated on my family Coleman camp stove. Good days, and I don't cast any more but I have about 400 RCBS .38 150 KT bullets left, which should last me a bit. Now, there are several bullet makers that make what I like, and at reasonable prices, but none that offer the RCBS 150....drat!
I have cast 28,764 RCBS or Ohaus 150 KT bullets, 11,932 with a two cavity mould the rest with Ohaus 4 cavity. Very good bulletWhen I first started casting, My "alloy" was wheelweights, with 50-50 lead solder added, in a ratio that I hoped was within shouting distance of Lyman #2. All heated on my family Coleman camp stove. Good days, and I don't cast any more but I have about 400 RCBS .38 150 KT bullets left, which should last me a bit. Now, there are several bullet makers that make what I like, and at reasonable prices, but none that offer the RCBS 150....drat!
OP
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In handguns I like a med to fast pistol powder. W231 in 38s, 45acp, and 45 colt. I run True Blue in 9mm and 357 mag. I switched to Accurate No 5 in the 45Colt because it gives a little better fps at a lower pressure than the others mentioned above and the powder cost is lower. At 14kpsi in the 45C you get blowby even with bullseye or tightwad so I annealed the case mouths and the blowby went away.
I only load hunting ammo w/ 296/LG for the 357 carbine but like you say if you don't load full power loads smutty cases will show up.
I only run w231 in two 357 magnum loads. One is a dbl 90 grain ball load that takes up a lot of case. It shoots best around 950fps - another 1/2 grain of powder pushes it up to 1000fps but the 2 ball groups open up more. Only shoot those from the revolver for pest control around the chicken pins. Easyier to hit in the dark with 2 bullets at about 2" apart than with one slug and the critters are usually small anyway. The other is a 110grain #6 birdshot load at around 1200 fps but you have to be close for the shot to be tight enough to be very effective (10 yrds +/-).
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AJC1
Member
I try to talk about Propellant/powder as a fuel choice. I kinda think there is a sweet spot between speed and powder volume. For me blue dot is perfect. Efficiency is inversely proportional to max speed. It takes a lot more powder to go a little faster under the same peak pressure limitations. Now do I load and enjoy #9 and 2400, absolutely. They are a lot more expensive to shoot in volume.
