.357 Magnum vs. .38 +P from 2 1/4" barrel

[heavyshooter]

I have become a Ruger fan and have purchased an SP101 (3") and a GP100 (4") in the past month. I am about to purchase a 2 1/4" SP101 but before I do I have a couple questions.

1) Is there much benefit to getting a .357 Magnum instead of a .38+P. I am wondering if such a short barrel results in the same general ballistics?

2) If I get the .357 Magnum and decide to use .38+P (125 gr.) will I lose anything in the ballistics ballpark?

Heavy

 

[Ohen Cepel]

For short barreled pistols like that I prefer the .38. Hard to burn the additional powder in a .357mag case in that short of a barrel.

Also, since the powder isn't burned you'll usually get more flash from a .357 than a .38.

You'll give up a little velocity but not enough to matter in my opinion. Shot placement and a well designed bullet are more important to me than the velocity that you'll loose.

 

[loosecannon]

Yes, there is a big difference between the two because of the much higher pressure of the .357 mag rd.

Noise and recoil of the magnum rd may offset its ballistic advantage.

Choosing the .357 mag chambering will give you a vast selection of ammo.


See Mr Camp's website, Highpowers and Handguns, and click on the other handguns section where this question is discussed.

 

[Bubba613]

I dont see much benefit to .357 in a short barrel, especially in a Smith 442/638 type gun. In a SP101 recoil won't be such an issue. I'd be fine carrying .38s but in fact actually carry .357s in my Smith 19 2 1/2.

 

[MCgunner]

Depends on the load. Here's some results I gained from a 2.25" SP101 with my handloads. You'll notice the heavy bullet loads work best. My 158 grainer is relatively mild, not a full pressure load. Best I get from +P in a snub is under 300 ft lbs. The 140 was my choice for carry. A faster powder would be necessary to juice up the 125 grainer, but they don't really work well out of a snub. Go with a 140 grain load would be my advice.

125 grain JHP/18.0 grains 2400......1102 fps/337 ft lbs
140 grain JHP/17.0 grains 2400......1332 fps/551 ft lbs
158 grain SWC/14.5 grains 2400.....1162 fps/426 ft lbs
180 grain XTP-JHP/13.8 grains AA#9....1306 fps/682 ft lbs

 

[SaxonPig]

The Magnum will always be significantly superior in velocity regardless of barrel length. The Magnum will lose a little more in the short barrel than will the 38 but the Magnum starts out so much faster that it still has it all over the smaller round no matter how short the barrel.

This myth of a 38 being as good as a 357 when the barrel is 2" long is ridiculous.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I concur with Saxonpig...I have a 2 1/2" barreled S&W. I'm getting 1100 fps with magnums and just barely 775 fps with .38 +P's. A vast difference in hitting power.

 

[hoptob]

+1. 357mag has significantly more power than 38spl +p if you keep both within current caliber specs. Here are some numbers for factory loads in my 2.25" SP.

Caliber..Load..........Bullet........Velocity..Energy
38spl+P..Rem L38S2.....125 gr. SJHP...902 fps..226 ft*lb
357mag...Rem R357M1....125 gr. SJHP..1289 fps..461 ft*lb
38spl+P..Speer 23921...135 gr. GDHP...963 fps..278 ft*lb
357mag...Rem R357M2....158 gr. SJHP..1131 fps..449 ft*lb

MCgunner has a very interesting 140 gr. load. for SP. His load is hotter than Alliant's recommended charge for this bullet but it beats all 357mag factory loads and handloads I tried so far. I guess I'll just have to try it too.

Mike

 

[MCgunner]

My 140 grain load is .5 grains below the Speer number 11 manual's max load of 17.5 grains 2400. Newer manuals are, no doubt, more conservative. As always, approach maximum levels with caution.

 

[hoptob]

MC,

I didn't mean to critisize your load and I too have been known for having more trust in my guns than today's manuals do. 17.0 gr. 2400 under 140 gr. JHP has been considered safe in 357 mag for a long time. Still thought it's worth mentioning for those who may be new to reloading that this number is a bit higher than current Alliant recommendation.

It wouldn't stop me from trying your load though. Can't pass on a chance to try 550 ft*lb in a snub.

Mike

 

[The Bushmaster]

Yup...And Sierra Fifth Edition lists 2400 and the 140 grain JHP at 17.4 grains...

 

[wnycollector]

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38vs357snub.htm

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Also, since the powder isn't burned you'll usually get more flash from a .357 than a .38.

The powder is burned before the bullet jumps the cylinder gap (if you find unburned grains, it's due to incomplete combustion.)

The greater flash occurs because there's more powder, and it's hotter.

 

[Mountie855]

If my mind hasn't failed me, 20-25 yrs ago Jeff Cooper wrote in one of his books that his favorite snub load was 5Gr. Red Dot with a 158 cast (358156, I think). Seems I remember him claiming 900+ fps, or so.

I didn't have a chrono then, but I shot thousands of that load in my S&W 60 (no dash)- it's hot, no question. But I still have that 60, and while not like new, it's still pretty tight.

Jeff also recommended for 357, 16.5Gr of 2400 with the same bullet as above, in 357 cases, with SP Magnum primers.. Again, a hot load, but I shot thousands of that load also. Shot them in S&w 27, 28 and a Ruger Blackhawk, and later, when the 66 was available, a few in those.

In those days I, along with many others, took the gurus' word as gospel, and maybe used some loads that we might not use today!

 

[s4s4u]

Jeez, these comaprisons are old and tired. What are you planning to shoot with it, bad guy or grizzly. At 15 feet there ain't no human that is going to be able to tell the difference on the receiving end. COM is COM and DOA period. The thirty-eight is plenty and will do fine from any 357 cylinder, with less recoil, flash and noise.

 

[bja5006]

yes there's a benefit, you can fire many different rounds. no, there will be no difference in ballistics, i've done tests in ballistics gel on this.

you will lose performance in a short barrel... from ANY round fired through it. the .357s are generally heavier, so there may be more ummpph with them.

i use semi-jacketed hollowpoints in 38+P out of my magnum snubnose. they open up much better and still penetrate as far as .357s.

 

[Rexster]

The .357 mag from a short barrel will still have a velocity/energy edge over the .38 +P from the same barrel. This assumes all else being equal. A .38 +P has less velocity from a snubby than from a four-plus-inch barrel, too. The decision to make is whether one can control the magnums, and will place shots well enough, or even wants to go to the trouble. There is no shame in making an informed decision; guys with far more testosterone than me have elected to stay with milder stuff, and go for precision.

A colleague who works with a west coast PD, and is widely respected as a law enforcement trainer, who posts on another forum as "nyeti," has called the snubby .357, and the SP101 in particular, a "hand-held flash bang." He believes that some of the legendary stopping power of the .357 in close-range defensive shootings derives from the fact that it can be very difficult to press an attack when suddenly faced with the stunning effect from the bright flash and loud noise, coupled with a medium-caliber hole leaking bodily fluids. Makes sense to me; no matter how much the shooter is affected by the sound and fury, the guy downrange is feeling it much more. (The weapon itself shades the shooter from the brightest central part of the flash, of course.)

It took me a while to adjust to the .357 in the SP101, and I still carry magnums in my little Rugers, but as I enter my late 40's, I don't shoot as many full-pressure rounds anymore, and am more likely to carry slightly milder stuff, such as Winchester 145-grain Silvertips in my lighter .357 weapons, such as the SP101 and Speed Six, saving the to-the-firewall 125-grain Federals for the 4" and 6" GP100s.

Keep in mind the role of the particular weapon. If I pull a .357 SP101, it will likely be a close-range face-to-face incident, over very quickly. If I am responding to an incident from a distance, or anticipating an armed encounter, I will choose a service-style handgun and/or long weapon, with the snubby relegated to backup status, or perhaps not even brought along for the ride. Two P229 pistols (my personally-owned duty pistols) make great back-up for a shotgun or rifle!

 

[orionengnr]

This is discussed about once a month.
The search function is your friend.

 

[Rexster]

Yes, orionegnr, but I keep refining my response. I may want to write a book one day. OK, just kidding about the book.

 

[jonmerritt]

I find that, if I miss them with my 357 snubbie, I will at least blind them with the flash, or set them on fire. Advantage to me for a follow up shot.
I like my little .357 snubbie (Rossi 461). It allows me to use a wide variety of ammo, and it is fun to plink with at 40ft (its a real challenge). Only problem is that I have big hands, and the trigger guard slams into my middle finger big knuckle when using 357 ammo. I need to modify the finger groove there.
I have had wanna be's try to tell me there is no such thing as a .357 magnum, well, really the .38 doesn't exist, since it is really a low powered shorter version of the .357

 

[The Bushmaster]

.357 magnum doesn't exist? Tell them to load a .357 magnum into a .38 Special. They'll need a soft head mallet. NO...Better not. Some idiot would do that...