357 seating/crimp check

[blackd24]

First attempt with 357 and set up my dies today. Pic below is the final product. Lyman manual has same bullet in their data (hornady 158 xtp) that should be seated to 1.59. I seated to 1.587 because it seemed like 1.59 didn’t seat deep enough. I’m using unfired starline cases.
My two questions - are these seated deep enough into the crimp groove and is it crimped enough?

I plan to use BE-86 or 2400 at mid range 357 loads.

 

[Tallinar]

Curious, did you trim the cases when you got them? What is the case length?

 

[reloaded_in_pa]

Looks good to me. What powder did you load with ? I've loaded thousands of the XTP 158, a great bullet for the 357 Mag.

 

[blackd24]

Looks good to me. What powder did you load with ? I've loaded thousands of the XTP 158, a great bullet for the 357 Mag.

have not loaded any yet. I was just doing dummy rounds to set up the dies. I have BE-86 and 2400. Looking for mid range 357.

 

[blackd24]

Curious, did you trim the cases when you got them? What is the case length?

I didn’t trim, only chamfer/debur. Starline website shows 1.275-1.285.

 

[LaneP]

Looks okay. When shooting revolver bullets with crimp grooves such as .357, I don't even concern myself with OAL, I just seat to about the midpoint of the crimp groove. So long as I'm staying within published load data and they fit the cylinder, they work. The degree of crimp applied might have to be fine tuned based on other variables, such as weight of gun and tendency of the bullet to jump crimp.

 

[vongh]

I think they look good.

 

[Walkalong]

My two questions - are these seated deep enough into the crimp groove and is it crimped enough?

Looks very good, but if I am to nit pic, seat them a hair deeper, we want the case mouth in the middle/deepest part of the canellure. You have a lot of bearing surface in the case helping the crimp out, which is good, so assuming neck tension is good, you don't need a bear crimp with 2400.

The proper OAL is with the bullet seated as posted, no matter what the book said. Seat to the center of the cannelure and that's the proper OAL with that bullet, and your cases trimmed to whatever length you use.

.32 Mag (Modified roll crimp)


.357 Mag (Roll crimp)

Yep, they look very similar, the cannelure or crimp groove has a lot to do with how a crimp turns out.
The case mouth wants to follow the indention.


.38 Spl (Roll crimp)


.44 Mag


.44 Mag. See how the case mouth took the form of the crimp groove.

 

[Blue68f100]

I would seat them a little bit deeper. I like mine ~3/4 up from the bottom of the cannalure. I setup the crimp die with the longest brass I have if your not trimming.

 

[JimKirk]

Need to seat a fuzz deeper as the brass will shorten slightly when you crimp ...

I seat to about 3/4 of the cannulure ....then crimp ...it ends up being just about dead center of the cannulure..

 

[Walkalong]

I have BE-86 and 2400. Looking for mid range 357.

Let me save you some trouble and share a great load I stole from @tightgroup tiger, 7.3 Grs BE-86 under a 158 Gr SWC. Save 2400 for full power loads, at which iy is excellent!

Work up of course, but just sayin'.......

 

[AJC1]

I seat to 1.585 and check position of canalure. If the crimp changes oal a little I stay inside max and it just seems to be right on most of the bullets I load. In your picture I would go a little deeper with the bullet.

 

[redcon1]

I didn’t trim, only chamfer/debur. Starline website shows 1.275-1.285.

Magnum pistols typically require a firm roll crimp, especially with H110/W296 and you can't get a consistent roll crimp without trimming as the crimp will find itself in various places within or without the cannelure. Seating in the middle of the cannelure will help especially if not trimming.

 

[Shivahasagun]

Dang. I need to seat mine a little deeper.

Mine look exactly like OP's. Same bullet and press, too. (But using Enforcer powder)

 

[AJC1]

Dang. I need to seat mine a little deeper.

Mine look exactly like OP's. Same bullet and press, too. (But using Enforcer powder)

Enforcer is very slow based on most burn rate charts and would do well with a heavy crimp. #9 sure benifits.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

have not loaded any yet. I was just doing dummy rounds to set up the dies. I have BE-86 and 2400. Looking for mid range 357.

Smart move. Always a good idea to make changes on dud cases. Two suggestions: like been said, seat to the middle of the crimp groove; and, fill the primer pocket with blue or white silicone sealant. Use it as a snap cap and as a quick reset standard for the dies. Using a color prevents accidental loading as a live round.

 

[AJC1]

Smart move. Always a good idea to make changes on dud cases. Two suggestions: like been said, seat to the middle of the crimp groove; and, fill the primer pocket with blue or white silicone sealant. Use it as a snap cap and as a quick reset standard for the dies. Using a color prevents accidental loading as a live round.

Also works well as a tester for bullet movements as it wont go off even if you load it and pull the trigger...

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Enforcer is very slow based on most burn rate charts and would do well with a heavy crimp. #9 sure benifits.

Seconded!

 

[.38 Special]

I personally seat a little deeper, for reasons already posted. However, it really is not critical, and borders on nit-picky. As pictured, the OP's loads are absolutely fine.

 

[Pat Riot]

Looks very good, but if I am to nit pic, seat them a hair deeper, we want the case mouth in the middle/deepest part of the canellure. You have a lot of bearing surface in the case helping the crimp out, which is good, so assuming neck tension is good, you don't need a bear crimp with 2400.

I would also agree on seating a bit deeper.

Here is a screenshot with red arrows that I added from the Hodgdon site that I accessed on my phone, hence the reason it looks weird. I know you didn’t list Universal powder but on their site they recommend the XTP bullet to be seated to a COL of 1.580” for nearly every powder for that bullet. For a couple of powders they listed 1.590”. They don’t list your powders, for obvious reasons…it’s a Hodgdon site. I use this site often.

Here’s the screenshot: sorry it’s a little hokey.

 

[Riomouse911]

You’re starting off well, I’d give it a tiny bit more depth and you’ll be fine!

As a long time loader of ..38/357 cartridges, and a tryer-outer of several powders suited for these cartridges, I’ll kindly suggest you order up a box of Extreme or similar plated or coated .358 SWC and load them over HP-38, Unique or AA# 5 for your mid-range loads. (You don’t want to mega-crimp plated bullets, I have had the plating get cut and peel from the bullets when fired because I roll-crimped them too much.) I’ve found these three powders to be really versatile and accurate with a variety of bullets in my guns and I think you will, too.



The XTP bullets are great for hunting and defensive applications. IMHO, there is no need to spend all the extra $$ on premium bullets for practice ammo. I’d save the XTPs for the 2400 and load upper end loads with them.

Good luck, and stay safe.

 

[joneb]

I trim my revolver brass to the same length, as this will help to achieve a consistent crimp.
For full power 357 magnum loads I seat the bullet deep where the case mouth is mostly hiding the cannelure and apply a slight roll crimp in the same step. I finish the crimp with a Lee collet crimp die in a separate step, this method has prevented bullet jump in my full power revolver loads.

 

[lordpaxman]

My two questions - are these seated deep enough into the crimp groove and is it crimped enough?

They would work fine just there but as others have said, a bit deeper (.5-.75 in the groove/shorter COL) would be ideal.
For roll crimps I make sure the cases are all the same length since the setup depends on that length being the same.
As far as the roll crimp itself, from the picture it looks good, but the real test would be a live fire test. Measure them ( I write that on the case) and during live fire re-measure them. A few thousandths growth wouldn’t be a problem but you don’t want them “jumping the gun”. Good luck.

 

[Pat Riot]

I trim my revolver brass to the same length, as this will help to achieve a consistent crimp.
For full power 357 magnum loads I seat the bullet deep where the case mouth is mostly hiding the cannelure and apply a slight roll crimp in the same step. I finish the crimp with a Lee collet crimp die in a separate step, this method has prevented bullet jump in my full power revolver loads.

Interesting concept. I had never considered this. Thanks for the tip. When you say “Lee collet die” do you mean the Factory Crimp Die?

 

[Walkalong]

but on their site they recommend the XTP bullet to be seated to a COL of 1.580” for nearly every powder for that bullet. For a couple of powders they listed 1.590”.

When I tested 240 and 158 Gr XTPs, my log shows 1.577 as the OAL I ended up at, with a note to shoot for 1.580 next time, my brass was trimmed to 1.280 (+/-).

I was testing the X-Treme 158 Gr SWC at the same time and list my OAL as 1.560+. Average velocity for it and the 158 XTP with 14.5 (As high as I went), were nearly identical from my 6" Trooper MkIII.

The SNS 158 Gr coated SWC was loaded at 1.605 (+/- .001 (flat stem) OAL with the same 14.5 Grs of 2400 and was about 50/75 FPS faster than the X-Treme & XTP.

14.5 Grs of 2400 was the sweet spot for me, but many others like 14.0 Grs. YMMV, work up to it. I started at 13.0 Grs.

I use WST or Competition (Whichever is available, slightly prefer WST, happy with either) for light .357 Mag plinkers, BE-86 for midrange loads, and 240 for full power .357 Mag loads.