.357 shooting on "Cops" last night

[Texshooter]

(1/1/05) and this kid goes into his uncles room. The uncle awakens from a sleep, is scared, and shoots the kid with a .357 from about 4 to 5 feet. The bullet hits, according to Police, about 1 inch below heart, center of chest.

The kid is alive, screaming for the Police. He is saying they "have to help him." But he is alive and can still talk. The bullet went through the victim, through the door and into the wall.

So, with this penetration is this most likely a .357 round, or is the kid alive because it might have been a weaker .38 load? I suppose there is no real way of knowing. The Police on the show said it was .357, but he may have said that just because of the revolver itself.

Thoughts?

 

[Fumbler]

I won't speculate on things like this.

One thing's for sure though, a .45ACP's extra 0.05" on each side isn't going to span that 1" to the kid's heart.

 

[yorec]

My thought is that I could never guess as to what "Cops" shows portray as being realistic or true. Probably a .22 lr that his hand and he wiped some blood on his torso...

Maybe even a book falling flat on the floor causing a bang and some chicken blood that seeped outta a package in the sink?

On the other hand it might be just as the officer on camera described - a through and through .357 mag wound exactly one inch below the heart which passed between both lungs. One very lucky kid and one scared (rightly so) and even more lucky uncle who needs to learn better gun handling/storage skills.

No way to tell, really.

 

[mec]

Never any way to tell. My first wife's cousin was shot thorugh the torso with a 30-30. Solid hit with the bullet chiping off the arch of the pelvis. Big hole but missed everthing vital and she recovered.

The shooter- a boyfriend then vaporized his own head with the rifle. Nothing left above the eyesockets. Ooo. Yuck.

It's entirely unpredictable what a given bullet will or will not do.

 

[HSMITH]

From my 'research' on the internet that should have blown the kid in half and then the pieces of the kid should have been wedged between the drywall in wall 3. Something isn't adding up.........

If the report is accurate I would suspect a 38 special loading or a SWC type magnum loading, could have also been a snubby 357 with a JSP or something like that. The through and then some penetration would happen shooting a kid with just about any loading, most doors are hollow core and offer the resistance to penetration of three layers of saran wrap. Most pellet guns will blow through a hollow core door with ease.

The critters I have shot with 357 magnum, from dogs to cattle, lead me to believe it wasn't a JHP magnum round from a full sized gun. I just don't see a way to survive more than a couple minutes after a JHP magnum round to the chest, but I suppose stranger things have happened before.

Regardless, a tragic shooting of a child no matter what the circumstances were. It is also a black eye for the shooting public, probably played up as much as possible by the media (including the producers of COPS) too.

 

[tc300mag1]

People have been shot thur and thur with a 4 mag without hitting anything vital or boes and not doing a lot of damage ...thats why 22 is most dangerous gun in the world goes in dont come out but bounces like a pin ball though you

 

[Wildalaska]

If he had been shot with an AK, it would have been over

WildtheakALWAYSwinsAlaska

 

[Preacherman]

There is a case on record of a Los Angeles lady being shot in the forehead with a 158gr. .357 Magnum JHP or JSP. The round went exactly down the middle of the brain, between the two halves, and exited out the back of her head. All she suffered was a headache!!!

Sounds unbelievable, I know, but I've read several reports of the incident, including one that Mas Ayoob gave to us during LFI-3, so I'm pretty sure it's true.

If a bullet doesn't expand, and doesn't hit anything vital, even a hit from a rifle is usually survivable.

 

[P95Carry]

even a hit from a rifle is usually survivable.

Only thing that strikes me in that case Peter is - the ''velocity factor'' ... the much greater chance for hydraulic displacement/disruption etc - beyond the elastic limits.

True tho - there are some quite remarkable survival stories around.

 

[GEM]

That would be a good tape for gun class and the one shoot stop gurus. I wonder if they sell them? IIRC, folks have taken torso hits with slugs and lived. If the heart doesn't stop and you don't bleed out - then someone just poked a hole in you.

Every watch a surgey show - if that don't kill you? Bleeding is controlled - of course.

In fact, I remember reading that in the old days people would rather get wounded with a big ball that the doc could find rather than a little one that would skitter around, not be found and kill you with the green dripped rots in a few days.

 

[targetshootr]

I read an article umpteen years ago about a guy, I think in NY city, who came-to on the street one night with a splitting headache. He got up and went home and then went to work the next day and finally went to the hospital. After x-rays they found no less than 5 bullets in his head. Each lodge in the thickest part of the bone and none penetrated the skull, as I remember. It was amazing to read and of course no one ever believes me when I relate it. lol. It was probably back in the mid or early '70s and the magazine was Time or something similiar.

 

[Cosmoline]

Bullet wounds kill in the short run in one of two ways: Massive damage to the CNS or sufficient damage to the circulatory system to cause shock from drop in blood pressure. That's it. No great mystery. If you get hit with a SP rifle bullet, you're more likely to die because the bullet will damage far more parts of your circulatory system, AND leave a great big hole in your back for the blood to come out. As was pointed out, if you don't hit anything vital (or enough of it), all you've done is made a hole in someone.

 

[yorec]

I believe it targetshootr - I own a .25 acp.

You ever wonder why the guy only had five bullets in his skull? It was because the perp's Raven jammed and he couldn't get another shot off!

 

[BluesBear]

thats why 22 is most dangerous gun in the world goes in dont come out but bounces like a pin ball though you

Well that's the funniest thing I've heard all week. Of course it's still early.


Anyway,

In the the 1980s, I recall reading a first hand account of an officer in Upstate New York where a suspect was shot FIVE times in the chest with .357 Magnum 158gr L-SWC and he outran several officers. they found him almost a mile later just sitting upright on a large rock the side of the road. Stone cold dead. But he still maganed to outrun them.


Handguns are fine weapons... when that's the best you have available.

 

[Mikul]

That is a lucky kid. I hope he recovers.

I'm always reminded of the story of a police officer who shot a fleeing suspect with a 12 gauge slug. It went through and through. Three police officers had to chase him down and fight him to get the cuffs on. It was a shoulder hit, but still.

 

[hillbilly]

I say it probably was a .357 magnum.

The reality of bullets can be very, very strange.

I went to high school with a guy who became an undercover drug agent in Little Rock. He and a partner went through the front door of a drug house. He was shot in the forehead from about five feet and lived. His partner was shot through the armpit, under his vest, and was dead on the floor about 45 seconds later.

I've seen the video "Deadly Effects" about actual cases of actual people being shot with actual bullets.

The guy who killed the two FBI agents in the infamous Florida shootout suffered a non-survivable wound that tore away his aorta completely. Even if surgeons had dropped him on a table and cracked his chest open immediately, he would have died no matter what.

Even without an aorta, the wounded man left one car, put suppressive fire onto two FBI agents, manuevered on them, killed them, tried to start another car, and went back to his original car all with a non-survivable wound.

In "Deadly Effects" is a clip about a man shot through the face with a .44 magnum who got 400 yards down the street before dropping.

A woman in a resturaunt robbery was shot once in the shoulder with .45 and died within seconds.

In other words, bullets aren't magical drop-them-in-their-tracks objects.

hillbilly

 

[cookekdjr]

You can never tell what a bullet will do. I've had folks survive multiple .357 shots to the torso, but another die from one .357 round to the butt.
I've had three folks in a shooting survive hits from a .45 acp... and I had one guy killed by a single shot from a .25 acp.
Generally, any pistol in a caliber that begins with a "4" (or higher )will be more effective than one that doesn't. That includes the .357, although if you can't have a .40 or above, .357 is that way to go.
Just my observations as a homicide prosecutor in a big city.
David

 

[fulloflead]

It could have been a plain ole' 38 Special Round Nose FMJ that was lucky enough to miss ribs and just slid through him.