wow6599
Member
I like your style Leon 
Missouri Walnut grip inserts, Meprolight front sight and a Simply Rugged holster.
Missouri Walnut grip inserts, Meprolight front sight and a Simply Rugged holster.
.357 snubbie or 9mm?
- Thread starter Godsgunman
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LeontheProfessional
Member
Wow,
I like your style as well. Clearly great minds think alike.
I like your style as well. Clearly great minds think alike.
He said it's lighter than 6904 so I'm betting it's polly. Good choice CZ makes some great guns and 9mm is a good compramise for carry.
And just for the record the correct answer is fiber optic front sight and faux ivory panels.
need to get a pic with the new sight
dprice3844444
member
you hear all that they are saying about recoil and noise etc.the 357 snubby for personal self defense is a great choice.it will definately be a one shot stopper if you use the correct factory ammo designed for maximum expansion at snubby velocities(speer gold dot 135's,i think)if and when it comes to a shtf situation,you will probably subcontiously block out the sound,recoil,and flash anyway because of your intense focus on the situation at hand.(personal law enforecement experience)i was in a situation where the perp was 3 foot away in a 3 foot hallway with my own model 65 3 inch heavy barrel model 64 (i'm 6ft 280 lbs not a small target).all i saw was the cylinder turning,hammer dropping,i swear i could've seen the bullet leaving the barrel,and a small pop.the perp then handed me the revolver and i promptly divoreced her.
gbw
Member
I seem to own nearly all of the usual suspects, all calibers. For what it's worth, when I pick up a gun with the primary purpose of being armed with a reliable, convienent, concealable, powerful, lightweight pistol (as opposed to going shooting), I nearly always pick up a Kel-Tec PF9. By far the best overall compromise I know of.
He said it's lighter than 6904 so I'm betting it's polly. Good choice CZ makes some great guns and 9mm is a good compramise for carry.
And just for the record the correct answer is fiber optic front sight and faux ivory panels.
need to get a pic with the new sight
Close, but the actually correct answer is fiber optic and stag grips
. I will post pics tonighthardluk1
member
To many people think the 125gr 357 loads are the cats rearend . They tend to be out of 4" barrel but not so out of 2" barrels. NO better than a 3" 9mm semi-auto that weight less and carries more. Might as well bump the power to a a 21oz Charter Arms 44sp bulldog and have a 165gr hp corbon to 240gr at 900fps soft lead cowboy load that does waay more damage than the on paper ballistic show. Or carry a semi-auto pistol.
Instead of 'shoot them both and pick the one you SHOOT best' pick the one that you'll CARRY.
I can shoot my glock 26 like a full size pistol w/ almost no felt recoil and greater accuracy. However, 9 times out of 10 it's in the safe and the PF9 that I hate to shoot is on me. I enjoy carrying the Kel tec. I put up w/ anything else.
I can shoot my glock 26 like a full size pistol w/ almost no felt recoil and greater accuracy. However, 9 times out of 10 it's in the safe and the PF9 that I hate to shoot is on me. I enjoy carrying the Kel tec. I put up w/ anything else.
colorado_handgunner
Member
This is so true. I shoot my G23 the best of all my guns but never carry it due to comfort. On the other hand, I do not shoot my snubie nearly as well, but will always drop it in my pocket on the way out. The best gun for carry is definitely the one you actually WILL carry.
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Most everyone that's shot my 3 inch SP-101 9mm has thought it was the cats behind... Many have offered to buy it! Some think it's cool but most of my friends know that apart from plus P loads 9mm spanks the .38 special across the board for velocity and the energy delivered with it.
I've narrowed my handgun collection down to 27 over the last few years and those that are left I'll never sell. I still carry a self loader on occasion but more times than not its a revolver, and under 3 inches is my preference.
Granted, my exposure to violent encounters has gone down since I retired but that doesn't change the fact I still want to give myself the best odds of survival if I get jammed up. Self defense will always remain a very personal decision for us all and our needs will change as we get older or our exposure levels change so nothing is written in stone.
Many have offered to buy it! Some think it's cool but most of my friends know that apart from plus P loads 9mm spanks the .38 special across the board for velocity and the energy delivered with it.I've narrowed my handgun collection down to 27 over the last few years and those that are left I'll never sell. I still carry a self loader on occasion but more times than not its a revolver, and under 3 inches is my preference.
Granted, my exposure to violent encounters has gone down since I retired but that doesn't change the fact I still want to give myself the best odds of survival if I get jammed up. Self defense will always remain a very personal decision for us all and our needs will change as we get older or our exposure levels change so nothing is written in stone.
MCgunner
Member
The snubby needs 140 grains of bullet or heavier out of a 2" barrel to get anything, the 125's are all flash/bang and make no more energy than a 115 grain +P 9 out of an auto. Even the heavies, out of a 2" gun, have a LOT of flash/bang. The 9 shoots a much faster powder and is much more efficient in short barrels and a subcompact 9 has less recoil, less muzzle blast, and is faster for the follow up. I carry a subcompact 9 pocket carry, myself, 11 rounds of +P on tap and much faster reload.
Only the 12 ounce scandium Smith and Wesson. My Kel Tec P11 is 14 ounces, a PF9 is 12 ounces, same weight as the S&W 340 and twice the firepower and much easier to shoot well, especially indoors. They also pocket well and the reload carried on the belt is faster and easier to tote concealed.
So, my answer is the subcompact 9 even though I really love my revolvers. I do rotate to a .38 Special snubby in my carry battery. I'm fully capable of defending my life with a .38, don't need no fire breathing snubby magnum. My shortest barrel .357 is my Taurus 66 3" gun, weighs about 35 ounces and I carry it in a fanny pack or OWB on occasion, depending on time of year. I really don't want a .357 snubby. I had a SP101, but it was no pocket gun at 27 ounces. Good carry, but IWB or OWB and an excellent little revolver.
Only the 12 ounce scandium Smith and Wesson. My Kel Tec P11 is 14 ounces, a PF9 is 12 ounces, same weight as the S&W 340 and twice the firepower and much easier to shoot well, especially indoors. They also pocket well and the reload carried on the belt is faster and easier to tote concealed.
So, my answer is the subcompact 9 even though I really love my revolvers. I do rotate to a .38 Special snubby in my carry battery. I'm fully capable of defending my life with a .38, don't need no fire breathing snubby magnum. My shortest barrel .357 is my Taurus 66 3" gun, weighs about 35 ounces and I carry it in a fanny pack or OWB on occasion, depending on time of year. I really don't want a .357 snubby. I had a SP101, but it was no pocket gun at 27 ounces. Good carry, but IWB or OWB and an excellent little revolver.
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orionengnr
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Wow...there is so much disinformation in this one thread that I doubt that it will ever be cleaned up.
You really need to do some Google searches on this subject...but be aware, much of what you read will be BS.
For an exqample...
You can buy a steel framed .357 snub (~24 oz) as well, and that might be a good place to start...but IME, that is not a pocket gun.
You can carry a G-19 or G-23 that weighs about the same, but holds 3x the ammo. Again, not a pocket gun.
Or you can carry a Kahr PM9 that weighs 14 oz, and holds 7 rounds.
Lots of choices out there.
If possible, read a lot, shoot a bit, buy once.
Godd luck, Rich
You really need to do some Google searches on this subject...but be aware, much of what you read will be BS.
For an exqample...
~14 oz .357 Mag snubbies are available, and I have owned several, but I sure would not recommend one.
You can buy a steel framed .357 snub (~24 oz) as well, and that might be a good place to start...but IME, that is not a pocket gun.
You can carry a G-19 or G-23 that weighs about the same, but holds 3x the ammo. Again, not a pocket gun.
Or you can carry a Kahr PM9 that weighs 14 oz, and holds 7 rounds.
Lots of choices out there.
If possible, read a lot, shoot a bit, buy once.
Godd luck, Rich
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People have different tolerances. I carry a steel snub .357 almost all of the time. I shoot it well, and it works well with what I wear.
IMO, a steel .357 snub gives you more options than the 9mm, but for basic CC you are splitting hairs. A 9mm +P round that's doing what a .357 round is doing is going to be about the same flash and recoil.
I like a lightweight snub at times, but not in .357 Mag.
IMO, a steel .357 snub gives you more options than the 9mm, but for basic CC you are splitting hairs. A 9mm +P round that's doing what a .357 round is doing is going to be about the same flash and recoil.
I like a lightweight snub at times, but not in .357 Mag.
LeontheProfessional
Member
If you really want a light weight 357 snub then get a LCR. Then if the .357s are too much for you, you can still shoot the .38s with the option to use +P.
CountGlockulla
Member
Get a 9mm snubby.
I'm about to have a S&W M60 3" barrel converted to 9mm.
Best of all worlds.
\\endthread.exe
I'm about to have a S&W M60 3" barrel converted to 9mm.
Best of all worlds.
\\endthread.exe
Vern Humphrey
Member
Wisdom comes from experience.
MCgunner
Member
Not even close, sir. The 9x19 is a more efficient round, holds much less of a much faster burning powder to give its numbers. Less flash, less recoil, near equal performance when you're talking 2" .357s. +P in my Kel Tec 14 ounce P11 is easy to control. 125 grain .357 from my SP101 will singe your nose hairs, though the recoil ain't bad due to 27 ounces of steel gun. Now, fire a little Kahr or Kel Tec then pick up a full power 12 ounce M340 Smith and fire THAT and tell me which you think has more recoil and muzzle blast. Fire flash suppressed carry loads if you want. No matter, the 9 will win that contest handily.
I'm convinced the locked breach action of a 9 softens the recoil, too. I never thought about that much until I bought a Polish Radom P64 a few years ago. That little toot is all steel, over 20 ounces, yet recoil is MUCH worse than my Kel Tec even if I'm firing +P in it. The 9x18 is a much lower pressure gun loaded with less powder and lighter bullet, but it's a blow back. It's punishing. I put some Marschal grips on it and a spring kit from Wolff in it and now it's manageable, but still tougher on the shooter than the Kel Tec.
Note that bullet weight and powder weight are what enters into the recoil calculation. Pressure does not. My 9mm +P 115 grain load holds 6.4 grains of Unique. My favorite 140 grain .357 carry load holds 17.0 grains of much slower burning Alliant 2400. Out of a short barrel, the muzzle blast can give you sunburn at an indoor range. LOL
Charter Arms is also coming out with the 9mm Pitbull (someday)
http://www.charterfirearms.com/products/Charter_Pitbull_79920.asp
http://www.charterfirearms.com/products/Charter_Pitbull_79920.asp
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tomrkba
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I see incorrect numbers for 357 Magnum from a 2" barrel.
http://hipowersandhandguns.com/38vs357snub.htm
"A Ruger SP-101 averages 1278 ft/sec with Triton 125-grain Quik Shok +P ammo"
It is best to chronograph your loads out of the short semi-auot in 9x19mm and the snubby 357. I think the snub nosed 357 will still get 1200+ FPS.
The pocket gun is all about concealed carry and not about maximizing effectiveness. If you want to maximize effectiveness, buy a Glock 20, add a 6" barrel, and shoot extremely hot 10mm ammunition. You'll have 16 rounds of 10mm onboard and another 30 in two spare mags. The pocket gun cannot do anything like that unless you wear overalls with giant pockets. Then the Glock 20 fits in the pocket, though DeSantis has yet to release a Nemesis for it. I'm sure a custom holster maker could build one for your pocket 10mm.
I would consider any J-Frame in 38 Special +P, S&W 640-1 or S&W Model 19 in the revolver. The Glock 26 is my first choice in small 9x19mm guns. Many companies are releasing small guns in 9x19mm. Look at the Kahr PM9, Keltec PF9, Ruger LC9, and SIG P938. Reviews are outstanding for the SIG P938. The SIG P938 is a very new gun and you may want to wait a year so they can work out the bugs.
I have owned several Kahr PM9 pistols and only one was reliable enough for carry. I had problems with the Kahr K9, but it shot very well when it decided it was a good day for shooting. If you can get a good PM9 (used from a friend), then go with the PM9. They carry really well and are very accurate. Night sights are an option.
The Keltech PF9 looked very rough internally. It did not inspire confidence. The trigger was substandard and difficult to use.
The trigger on the LC9 that I tried was yucky. It appears to be an improved PF9--it seems to be intended as direct competition. I recommend researching the gun extensively before buying.
If you have no idea what to get after all this, just buy a S&W Model 642 or 442 (38 Special +P) without the lock and call it good. Don't agonize over a few FPS. Just buy expensive ammo from the best manufacturers (Corbon, Speer, Hornady, etc) with a weight of 130 grains or more. I spent the other day looking for defensive 38 Special +P ammo and most companies seem to be making short barrel loads with 130-140 grain JHP bullets. Choose several that seem to look good, buy a box of each and run a few tests with the chronograph. Pick the the one that shoots best for you. Buy 10 AZOOM Snap-Caps (so you can practice reloading from a loader or speed strip) and dry fire the gun constantly. The trigger will improve as it loosens up and your finger gets stronger.
http://hipowersandhandguns.com/38vs357snub.htm
"A Ruger SP-101 averages 1278 ft/sec with Triton 125-grain Quik Shok +P ammo"
It is best to chronograph your loads out of the short semi-auot in 9x19mm and the snubby 357. I think the snub nosed 357 will still get 1200+ FPS.
The pocket gun is all about concealed carry and not about maximizing effectiveness. If you want to maximize effectiveness, buy a Glock 20, add a 6" barrel, and shoot extremely hot 10mm ammunition. You'll have 16 rounds of 10mm onboard and another 30 in two spare mags. The pocket gun cannot do anything like that unless you wear overalls with giant pockets. Then the Glock 20 fits in the pocket, though DeSantis has yet to release a Nemesis for it. I'm sure a custom holster maker could build one for your pocket 10mm.
I would consider any J-Frame in 38 Special +P, S&W 640-1 or S&W Model 19 in the revolver. The Glock 26 is my first choice in small 9x19mm guns. Many companies are releasing small guns in 9x19mm. Look at the Kahr PM9, Keltec PF9, Ruger LC9, and SIG P938. Reviews are outstanding for the SIG P938. The SIG P938 is a very new gun and you may want to wait a year so they can work out the bugs.
I have owned several Kahr PM9 pistols and only one was reliable enough for carry. I had problems with the Kahr K9, but it shot very well when it decided it was a good day for shooting. If you can get a good PM9 (used from a friend), then go with the PM9. They carry really well and are very accurate. Night sights are an option.
The Keltech PF9 looked very rough internally. It did not inspire confidence. The trigger was substandard and difficult to use.
The trigger on the LC9 that I tried was yucky. It appears to be an improved PF9--it seems to be intended as direct competition. I recommend researching the gun extensively before buying.
If you have no idea what to get after all this, just buy a S&W Model 642 or 442 (38 Special +P) without the lock and call it good. Don't agonize over a few FPS. Just buy expensive ammo from the best manufacturers (Corbon, Speer, Hornady, etc) with a weight of 130 grains or more. I spent the other day looking for defensive 38 Special +P ammo and most companies seem to be making short barrel loads with 130-140 grain JHP bullets. Choose several that seem to look good, buy a box of each and run a few tests with the chronograph. Pick the the one that shoots best for you. Buy 10 AZOOM Snap-Caps (so you can practice reloading from a loader or speed strip) and dry fire the gun constantly. The trigger will improve as it loosens up and your finger gets stronger.
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MCgunner
Member
My 140 grain Speer JHP load produces 1332 fps out of my 2.25" SP101. I haven't done expansion tests, but this is good velocity. I load it over 17.0 grains 2400. It IS rather manly even in a 27 ounce gun and shooting it indoors, well, I don't want to.
My 9mm +P is close enough and I am confident it will do the job. It's much easier on ears and eyes.Here are 4 loads chronographed out of the SP101's 2.25" barrel. Note, the 125 grainer was all flash bang and no bite.
125 grain JHP/18.0 grains 2400......1102 fps/337 ft lbs
140 grain JHP/17.0 grains 2400......1332 fps/551 ft lbs
165 grain cast SWC/14.5 grains 2400.....1162 fps/494 ft lbs
180 grain XTP JHP/13.8 grains AA#9....1306 fps/682 ft lbs ---- this one hurts.
Frankly the difference is negligible once 9mm starts pushing +p or better. Even before that it's worth a shrug at best.
With that in mind, I say .357 for the sole reason that you have other nines. A revolver might be just the fun you're looking for
With that in mind, I say .357 for the sole reason that you have other nines. A revolver might be just the fun you're looking for
colorado_handgunner
Member
I agree whole heartedly with this. Have had a Springfield subcompact, Ruger LCP, Diamondback 9mm (piece of crap), and now a S&W 642. None of the others compare to the snubie. The trigger smooths up nicely.
The snap caps are definitely great to, being able to dry fire without having to manipulate a slide is great.
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