.357 vs black bear

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"If you're defensively shooting at a bear outside of spray ranges it's very likely you're in the wrong, not the bear."

Thats a joke, right?

A picture. Man is being charged by a rather large black bear. Wind is kind of heavy. Holds wetted finger in air. Decides to run. Sorry, couldn't help it.

One. You will never outrun a bear.
Two. If the bear is waddling toward you, things will probably be ok.
Three. A black bear will never rear and walk into you. The attack will be astonishingly fast. Inhuman deadly force. Shock and awe. The back of the neck is the favorite.
 
I would choose some hard cast loads to have along. But I think you should be fine with the 3" 357 mag for self defense. It might be one of my choices as well. A warning shot in the event the bear gets too close is all that is likely necessary. As mentioned, they are very fast when they charge and if you are exposed to even a fake charge, your hair will definitely stand up. Enjoy your camping outing.
 
If I was hunting black bear, I might use a .357. Heck, they can be brought down with arrows. But, just as with archery, I'd want a friend along with a rifle or a 12 gauge. Just in case.

Here, you're not talking about hunting, where you can choose whether you like the approach, the wind, etc. You're talking about emergency use against an angry charging bear.

So, make noise. Package food correctly, so you're not attracting them. Pepper spray.

And if, after all that, you still need a gun to stop a charge? Well, how accurate and fast is your brain-shot with that .357?
 
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I've lived, hiked, fished, camped and hunted in Black Bear country for 56 of my 57 years. I have yet to have anything resembling a confrontation, nor do I make a point to carry a "bear gun" with me every time I go outside. You do what you think is necessary to put your mind at ease. Odds are greater you will shoot yourself or someone else in your party by accident with whatever gun you take with you, than the odds of being attacked by a rouge man-eating black bear.
 
Red Cent said:
Thats a joke, right?
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Not a joke.

Seeing a black bear in the wild is not cause for alarm. Be cautious, absolutely, but if the bear is outside of the sprays range just what do you envision him doing that requires you to shoot him when chasing him off wouldn’t suffice?

I bring a gun camping too but it’s more for people than bears.
 
If you're hiking in black bear country, pack a good gun for feral dogs and humans because your chances of having to shoot one of those is SIGNIFICANTLY greater than having to shoot a black bear.

Unless you get between a mama black bear and her cubs or stumble across an extremely rare black bear with rabies you will not have to shoot a black bear as he'll bug out before you get anywhere near him.

I live in a suburban neighborhood that is technically black bear country ... generally you yell at 'em and they look at you like "who, me?" and then amble off all dejected. I've seen black bears run off by small dogs (the bears looked genuinely frightened too).

THIS is what the typical black bear encounter looks like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdeNz4ybF34


Now brown bears are a different story (but you'll know in advance if you're in brown bear territory as you're probably not in the lower 48).



Anyway, to answer the OP's question, yes a 3" .357mag would be an excellent piece to take with you on your trip.
 
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Then if that is all I have to worry about, I'll carry the MKIII.

The man asked if the 357 is enough gun. I take that in context of saving your a.......butt. Therefore; no, it is not enough. My 45s and 44s ain't either.

Would I shoot a curious bear walking around 25 feet away? Probably not. But by that time, I would have the big bore at the low ready.

Bow and arrow? Do you realize how long it takes a bear to bleed out from a razor cut:cool:?!

Didn't anyone read the snippets about black bear dining on humans:banghead:?

I have hunted the west, some south, a lot in the Appalachians. After all these years of harvesting deer, antelope, feral hog, quail, grouse, squirrel....... Now I cannot pull a trigger on game. I do not want to kill living animals, EXCEPT..........
 
Do you realize how long it takes a bear to bleed out from a razor cut?!
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Sure. But not as well as this guy knows:

NY_0907_01A.jpg


http://www.newyorkgameandfish.com/hunting/bowhunting-hunting/NY_0907_01/

See, there's this sport called "bow-hunting", and what these guys do, they...:D

More seriously, all of the African Big 5 have been taken with bow and arrow. Uh...not by me, though. In each case (I assume) the archer was backed up by a professional with a large rifle--but if you use the rifle, it doesn't count as an archery trophy.
 
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In addition to what has already been said I always have a loud whistle or even better an air horn when backpacking. While I would not use one on a charging bear, that is what the gun and spray are for, they are great from making a bear flee before they decide to charge.
 
Without getting into a bear gun debate, I'll just say that if you choose to carry a .357 for black bear defense, the Buffalo Bore 180-grain hardcast lead flat nose load is the best load I've found for my .357 revolvers. It averages about 1,240 f/s from my 2.25" SP-101. That's right, a 180-grain bullet going 1,240 feet/second from a 2.25" barrel for 615 foot pounds of muzzle energy. It's hot stuff. Imagine it out of a 4" or 6" barrel!

Is a .44 Magnum better? Yes. Will the Buffalo Bore 180-grain .357 load do the job? Maybe, maybe not, but it's probably got a better chance than 95% of other commercial .357 loads out there.

A warning, however: this particular Buffalo Bore load is a wrist-twister and will rattle your brain a little from a light weight revolver, and it takes a lot of concentration to get your sights back on target after that first BOOM. If you're going to carry it, practice with it a lot, as with any other load you are going to count on for survival.
 
Would I shoot a curious bear walking around 25 feet away?
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Red Cent, I would call you a keyboard alarmist. :) 25 feet is VERY close to a black bear. A black bear could cover 25 feet in a blink of the eye and much faster than you could ever draw your firearm from a holster (my opinion). You would be right to have your firearm drawn at that distance. 25 Yards is close. I would be waving my hands and yelling long before 25 feet unless I was out taking wildlife photos. But that is another story. You dream for those 25 foot encounters and you hope like heck that they wander away when you have finished with your photos. I have had 25 foot encounters. They don't last long as usually the bear is high tailing it away from you as soon as they realize a human is close by.
 
Loosedhorse, hanging in the garage is a Matthews Conquest, a Larry Wise Apex target bow, and a Mountain Top Archery (Davis, WV) shoot through, and an ancient Bear round wheel.

Shoot through.

Bows003.gif

If you are familiar with archery, you know that this would be the best to launch an arrow with no interference and easy to tune for the perfect cut in tuning paper.

Yeah, I have taken some deer with it. None dropped where they stood. That bear may bleed out but he/she will not drop in its tracks. You will probably p......make it mad.
 
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I was a Boy Scout too. Trying to remember the motto. What was........

Keyboard alarmist?

I have been shot at, held up twice by a team at gun point, faced down a couple of situations, rode and helped with the State Patrol and have chased some interesting people.

Alarmist? Hell no. Been there and done that. Think I should be saying "Ahhh man, you don't need protection. Just call the..........."

People, if I am walking in the woods and a bear appears, I will carefully unholster,maybe back away slow. If it will not go away and if it continues to approach and attempts to scare it will not work, I will take the next step. Shame they cannot talk.

22 Rimfire, i would hope past training would take over my subconscious. Brag time. I can hit you from the holster with a SA COM in about a second including reaction time. Never tried it on a bear.

Brain shot? You will skip off the skull if you get lucky and hit it.

"....but if the bear is outside of the sprays range just what do you envision him doing that requires you to shoot him when chasing him off wouldn’t suffice?"

Don't know. Not into interpreting facial expressions of a bear. I guess the next step towards me?

Life is cruel. To insure it, I will cheat if necessary.:rolleyes:

You guys getting in your best shots (pun intended)?:cool:
 
Bears behave a lot like dogs. You wouldn't shoot a dog that happens to wander in close proximity to you unless it was displaying some sort of aggressive behavior. The same should be true for bears.
Hit him with some pepper spray if he doesn't back off. Shoot him if he shows the same body language or sounds that an aggressive dog would display.

Edited to add: Bullets won't bounce off a bears skull. That's just an old tale invented by bad shots.
 
That bear may bleed out but he/she will not drop in its tracks. You will probably p......make it mad.
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Hey, I don't hunt anything with a bow. Lots of reasons, but maybe mostly lack of skill.

However, I wouldn't think someone dopey for hunting dangerous game by archery as long as: the bow draw and arrow weight are appropriate; he knows he can place the shot where he need it...or decide not to shoot when he can't; and--

He brings along that friend with the rifle that I was talking about. ;)

As to dopey for bringing a .357 for bear defense? For sure if that's his only precaution, or if he doesn't have lots of practiced skill with it. No firearm is a good luck charm.
 
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Well it now seems like Ill have a buddies 30-30 and he will have a 12 with slugs. I know is rare for a bear to attack without provocation but hope for the best plan for the worst. I really dont know much about bears. One of my biggest questions Is do that have a chase instinct like dogs? My wife I dont worry about but her friend is skittish as a rabbit but not near as fast. Shes my big worry. I thought about leaving her but the boss said shes coming. I think i will get the mace and possibly pick up a 44 mag on the way out (boss willing). I really like the 357 tho and for the aim questions I practice with swing targets at 15 to 30 yards about the size of a dinner plate.
 
DO NOT RUN Hay you bow hunters . Anyone remember reading about a father and son on an elk hunt. Son calling and dad ready to shoot with his bow. A grizzly chargered the son and starts mauling him. Father jumps up swing his bow and puts arrow try the bears heart. Bear gets off the son runs off to die. Son gets stitched up and learns that sounding like a elk in bear country could make for a bad day. Bows like centerfire cartridges are very diedly when well placed. May not drop game in there tracks but not likely to stand around either. Easy to read who has been around bears in the woods, some that hunt a bit and even some that probably don't even hunt. If one charges you time will be very short to react. A handgun is good for many things but have some bear spray is only smart. And as covered by others, you may in the excitment shoot your self or miss completely. The spray can wash off, a bullet won't. You could use a bear spray even if still mounted to your own chest. Most times when a bear is spotted it tends to not be a big deal so long as it ain't some dumies back yard bear. They darn sure do use our stands to sleep in to and clean up our feeders. Also up here during a bad warm winter a few years back bear were known to steal a died deer from a hunters late in the season. Don't go feel'n like rambo , carry your handgun for any problems that might come up but if bears are around carry some spray in a belt or chest holster too.
 
I'm not very experienced with black bears, but brown/grizzly bears will instinctively chase you if you run. It's known as the prey/predator response and we see this every year with moron joggers who decide to run on trails and get chewed up.

I suspect black bears will do it as well, but I'm not sure on that point.
 
I own lots of guns. Among them a Dan Wesson .44 mag and a T/C Encore 7mm 08. When I go out in the woods camping or just walking around (lots of black bears around here), I don't take either one or any of my other guns unless I'm hunting. I may have a death wish, but I don't have a roll bar on my truck either. And I don't wear a helmet when driving it. It may seem like I'm being sarcastic, but it's far more likely you will get in an accident on the way to the woods than get attacked by a black bear whilst in the woods. If you think you need a large caliber handgun for black bear proptection that's your choice and even if it does nothing but make you feel safer I say go for it. But realistically you may also want to consider some crash safety modifications to your vehicle and some protective gear.
 
Red Cent said:
I have been shot at, held up twice by a team at gun point...
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By black bears?

KodiakBeer said:
I'm not very experienced with black bears, but brown/grizzly bears will instinctively chase you if you run. It's known as the prey/predator response and we see this every year with moron joggers who decide to run on trails and get chewed up.

I suspect black bears will do it as well, but I'm not sure on that point.
Click to expand...

Black bears and brown bears are VERY different. Black bears are docile when compared to their brown cousins ... basically the lighter the bear the more dangerous ... polar bears are the meanest beasts on the planet (if they ever learn how to drive we're all in trouble).

Like I said we live with them here in town and they're basically like lazy dogs.

If you look at things from the standpoint of statistical probability, you're much more likely to run into feral dogs or feral humans than you are to run into an aggressive black bear.

If you look at things from the standpoint of avoiding even remote possibilities ... well then stay home ... and barricade yourself in a room in the back with a heavy machine gun and claymores strewn about the property.
 
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