.357 vs black bear

[CHEVELLE427]

Dad went to Alaska back in the 80's.

brought back some stories.

one was about how to tell the bears apart.

if it climbs the tree and eats you it was a black bear.

if it knocks the tree down and eats you it was a grizzly.

was also told of a ranger that had an encounter with a bear (im thinking grizzly) said when they found the bear it had 6 slugs in it from the ranger's 357 mag and the Ranger.

i think i would go with a min of a 44mag just because. or a SW ES 460


It has also been said that some have killed bears with a sharp rock tied to the end of a stick....

 

[Taurus 66]

So here is my thing is a 357 mag from a 3 in barrel adequate to stop bears or should I lug the 06 out

An 06 along with a 357 is better than a 357 with nothing else as backup, but without a rifle on hand and only discussing pistol here, barrel length doesn't matter that much because by the time you "have to take a killing shot" a bear would be close enough to where distance doesn't matter. 3" barrel pressure will give you adequate penetration into a bear's vital body organs, and it will also penetrate deep into a bear's skull.

I heard some pretty bunk stories over the years about hunters who shot black bears at close range with a (30 something) rifle, and the bullet deflected off he skull causing the animal to get enraged. It's not an unbelievable story ... it's a story not to be believed.

Don't listen to anyone who might in a round about way say something like: "Bears are super-fortified mighty beings with special kevlar & reactive military armor combined. Yeah bullets bounce off them only making them madder than ever." - or something to that nature.

Heck, there has been one case where I read about a man who threw a rock (or something similar) at a bear that was about to attack his child and in that one lucky throw he killed it. Is a rock a .357 bullet? Does the rock travel at anywhere near the velocity of a bullet from any gun? Why could a rock kill and rifle bullets bounce off?

Debunk the myths yourself. At least I helped aim you in the right direction.

 

[gym]

You don't want to gamble with peoples lives, I would suggest 2 to 4 firearms. Everyone should have a 357 minimum, I would opt for a 44 Mag or a 454-50. a bear can outrun you and run longer and go right up a tree after you. This should be a no brainer unless you are going to be actually holding hands, you need everyone to be able to protect themselves. Again this is like deciding when you are going to get robbed or not. I won't take my gun today it's hot and I have a suit on, then bang that's the day you needed it. don't assume you are going to be in a position to pick off the bear. The Bear does this all his life, he knows when to pick you off if he's watching you. He will wait for a stagler or when you are sleeping. Everyone or at least every couple should be armed. Besides there are more than just bears out there. I don't know where you are going camping but wild cats, wild hogs, wild dogs, and other crazy stuff is out there, along with wild men, so take a few handguns with you.

 

[hso]

Bear spray with the .357 as a backup.

It almost certainly isn't adequate out of that short a barrel, but with ammunition specifically intended for the purpose you'll be better off than with JHP.

 

[Zundfolge]

In some places and at some times of year, hiking with a rifle and no hunting license will get you cited for poaching (or at least hassled by the game warden).

 

[9MMare]

Red Cent, you are bringing up...legitimately...the only real threatening black bear populations: those that are not familiar with humans...in very remote isolated areas....they actually may consider humans as food, like polar bears do.

But that's not going to happen in the lower 48.

And the bear that invaded the trailer for food...probably killed the guy because there was no way for the man to escape....he was too close to the food.


It's not impossible, but carrying a gun tends to make people feel that they can drop their other defenses, not be as careful. So then they end up too close, not as respectful of their space...and end up with excuses to shoot.

 

[Jeff F]

Use hard cast lead bullets and a .357 will do the job just fine. I have killed 2 with a 4 inch Security Six at about 30 yards. One round on one, two rounds on the other, he was running and the first one broke his shoulder.

 

[9MMare]

"If you're defensively shooting at a bear outside of spray ranges it's very likely you're in the wrong, not the bear."

Thats a joke, right?

A picture. Man is being charged by a rather large black bear. Wind is kind of heavy. Holds wetted finger in air. Decides to run. Sorry, couldn't help it.

One. You will never outrun a bear.
Two. If the bear is waddling toward you, things will probably be ok.
Three. A black bear will never rear and walk into you. The attack will be astonishingly fast. Inhuman deadly force. Shock and awe. The back of the neck is the favorite.

Black bears, even mommas with babies, almost always bluff charge. Hard to stand there? Sure, but it doesnt change the fact that you walked into their home...scared them, and now decide to shoot them. Every single person I've ever seen post here says they feel they are justified in defending themselves and their families in their homes............

I do have sources but they are all books. Of course if you are between a garbage can and a black bear, all bets are off

 

[9MMare]

Do tell http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38451965/ns/us_news-life/

They dont know what species of bear, or even how many.

 

[gatorjames85]

Obviously if you shoot a black bear with a .357 revolver and it notices it will get very angry, especially if it bounces off its impenetrable skull. I think your whole party should be armed with .470 Nitro Express double rifles. Seriously, unless you are going to be engaging in activities that will frequently take you into close contact with large bears, I would just carry your handgun with some hard cast ammo (and maybe some bear spray) and not worry about hauling your .30-06 everywhere. Life is all about calculated risks; you can't do anything that will 100% ensure safety.

 

[Sport45]

You don't want to gamble with peoples lives, I would suggest 2 to 4 firearms. Everyone should have a 357 minimum, I would opt for a 44 Mag or a 454-50. a bear can outrun you and run longer and go right up a tree after you.

And get a couple of those leather cartridge belts for everyone and cross them over your chests Poncho Villa style. With 3 or 4 guns each and plenty of ammo you should be ready for just about anything.

Bear spray. It's purpose-made for repelling bears. Really.

One of these days bear threads will be locked down as fast as zombie and TEOTWAWKI threads.

 

[2 Wild Dueces]

I've carried a 357 GP100 Ruger with a five inch bbl while baiting bears for several years. I use some warm-loaded 158 grain, flat nose, semi-jacketed bullets. Not sure if it would stop an enraged bear....but it's better than a stick, has a stout recoil, and it makes serious noise......and it makes me feel better.

Some years back.....I got "lost" while dragging a plastic sled full of bait to an active bait pile (we had patterned a big bear at this site prior to season). Cloudy, no wind, big bear scat everywhere, no compass, no gun, hot, tired, and I got "lost" in thick cover near the bait. Dumb. Didn't want to abandon the sled as I was serious about the site and the bear that was dining there. Took me about 30 minutes of extra dragging to locate the site.

Started carrying a revolver after that incident.....cause I don't want to wrestle with bears over the bait. I also flag the trail better now. I probably should own a 44 or 45 cal.

 

[Red Cent]

"But that's not going to happen in the lower 48."

"It's not impossible, but carrying a gun tends to make people feel that they can drop their other defenses, not be as careful. So then they end up too close, not as respectful of their space...and end up with excuses to shoot."

9MMare, it is obvious you would not kill a bear. There is a big difference between me, the present woose who used to hunt incessantly, and you, who, apparently disdains hunting/killing. Thats OK. But PLEASE don't tell a 69 year old hillbilly who toted a Remington #4 when he was four or five that he shouldn't carry a firearm because he might be inclined to shoot a bear. I think you are thinking you are in some people's head. Holy..........

One of my comfort and security blankets.

 

[gym]

No Sport, just a holster, Try using that bear spary when the bear comes at you from above , or it's raining, or windy. Just a simple 357 for each couple will do more should they walk into a litter of cubs, and not be aware of it. I grew up "when I was very young 1"-12 or 14", on 1000 sq miles of land upstate, where my family owned a hotel in Fleishmans. And there were bears right up the mountain many times when we "as kids" not knowing any better, would go where we were told not to. Nothing happened but that was probablly just dumb luck. If people panic and try to get out that can of spray while backpacking up a trail with a blind spot, then you are taking unnesasarry risks. I would not shoot a bear unless it was coming for me, it happens more now than before. So just because I live in FL now dosen't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Plus My dad used to send me out with a professional hunter who worked for him, and he showed me many nights some of the big cats overhead in the trees and other wildlife. If you carry a gun for self defense on the street, why would you not take one into the woods. There may be a couple of crazys in there also, the aren't confined to citys. People go into the woods to hide also, don't you watch those movies where the gorgeous blond and her boyfriend walk into those horrible bank robbers..lol

 

[KodiakBeer]

I always carry pepper spray, but oddly I've never actually used it. I've repelled brown bears with shots into the ground, clapping my hands, yelling and even waving my hat. Sometimes just lowering your eyes will make a bear that's moving toward you turn, just by demonstrating that you're not a threat. I have video of doing just that - a bear loping towards me and me lowering my head where he immediately loses interest.
That might sound like BS, but I see brownies almost every day during the summer. People around here get pretty used to bears. Just think of them like big dogs and do the same things you'd do when approached by a dog. If it's just curious, shoo them away. If they are aggressive zap them with pepper. And if you must, shoot them.

 

[gym]

I am completlly with you on that Kodiak, I would only shoot any animal as a last resort. But for god sakes these people are going into the woods, not having a gun available is just silly. The bears never bothered us as kids we knew where they were and snuck up to watch them, but there are cyotes and wild dogs , etc that are probablly more dangerous to people than the one pissed off bear. Take your gun with you just like going out in the city.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Yeah, bring your gun when you camp or backpack. Heck, bring your gun when you go anywhere.

I don't have much experience with black bears, but I've still probably encountered more of them than 99% of the population. If I was carrying a .357 for black bears I'd use heavy hard cast hunting slugs. And pepper spray...

 

[Ala Dan]

Just say, "come here BIG BLACK" - give him/her an apple and a bannana; and
they are sure too leave you alone~! [Just kidding, of course ~!!! ]

I think the .357 magnum loaded with hard cast bullets of a 158 grain weight,
should do the trick~?

The Smokies are loaded with BIG BLACK's; and while they are not actually
known to attack people, if hungry they probably would. Especially, if their
CUBS are present or near-by. Over the years, I have fed 'em, without any
problems. Once I run out of food, I make haste in gett'in the hell out of
Dodge.

 

[Mr. T]

A .357 Mag is more than enough gun to do the job on a black bear; just use hard cast bullets. If there has been a lot of sightings though I would bring a youth model 20 gauge with foster slugs. You could sling the gun that way, but it's still light and readily available. If the bear sightings are that numerous...I'd consider another camp site.

 

[Cosmoline]

"If you're defensively shooting at a bear outside of spray ranges it's very likely you're in the wrong, not the bear."

Thats a joke, right?

Well what are you proposing, shooting every bear in sight? I've run into many black bears here, sometimes right underfoot. They aren't ravening beasts. They're just black bears. The sows aren't even that much of a threat. I came upon a mess of them last fall and that got kind of fun, but even then I didn't need to spray or shoot any of them. They're just little guys.

The instances of black bear turning predatory are rare, and do NOT involve a charge. If one wants to hunt you he will likely be a very large boar and just walk right up and take a bite. They don't charge to hunt, nor do they leap on the back of your neck. They casually walk up and grab you. No barking, no slapping, no teeth clattering. They do those things when they're scared of you, not when they want to eat you.

 

[Mr. T]

Dear Cosmoline- not sure where you got your wilderness in sight from, but I've grown up around Black Bears my whole life (going on 50 years)...the minute you stop respecting them that's the minute you get your @sS ripped up and you end up as bear scat on the trail. Statistically black bears kill more people every year in this country than Polar, Brown, Grizzly, Kodiak, etc. The reason that is, is because people like yourself don't give them the respect they deserve and you try to treat them like some Disney Character. A female sow protecting her cubs is the most dangerous thing in the woods if you surprise them (Yes..even the black bear sows). In many cases you might not even have enough time to draw the weapon you are carrying to defend yourself. Oh and black bears do charge, even if they don't intend on eating you; many times they do it if they are defending their perceived turf.

 

[mcmurry]

One thing with bear spray. Some years back one of the outdoors magazines had a story about bears and using pepper spray. It said you almost had to let the bear get close enough to actually spray it in the bears face. In one instance, someone actually sprayed their tent, and a bear tore down the tent. The story claimed that bears are curious and if the spray does not hit the eyes or someother sensitive area, the bear may actually come closer, to investigate the smell. We have black bears in south Arkansas, but they are extremely rare. In a large state park,neither guns nor hunting are allowed. The National parks are different, but to shoot an attacking animal, you had better have tooth or claw marks to prove an attack. I would carry bear spray on my belt along with a gun. Preferably, a gun that I am comfortable with.Keep one thing in mind-wild animals don't think like you or I do. It's entirely possible that the animal will panic and want to get behind the nearest bush, even if that bush is behind you! I've both seen and heard of it happening with coyotes.

 

[Cosmoline]

Black bear sows do not typically attack in defense of cubs. It can happen, but is very rare. I know of one instance where a sow physically swatted a man in defense of a cub up here, but it was an oddity. The ones I've run into dart for cover or climb a tree. In fact it was a little CUB that charged me last fall. The sow took off.

That does not mean black bears are Disney characters or harmless. They can be deadly, particularly the very large boars. But they are not in the same league as a brown bear sow with cubs. I respect both, and will back off from both. If a bear has the trail, my policy is to call it a day and leave. But I don't go around shooting them on sight or just because they're darting around under foot.

Shooting any bear you see is a recipe for a well-earned poaching charge. The black bear to be worried about are the large ones that waltz right up to you. Observe the pattern of their attacks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America#Black_bear_3

The brownie sows are the ones that maul people every season, though these are not usually fatal encounters. Brown bear predation is rare. There was the well-deserved Treadwell case and another case up in ANWR.

 

[DAP90]

I recommend bringing a cat for black bear defense. Make sure it’s a farm raised Maine Coon Cat though – gotta bring enough cat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi7tN2rjQcc&feature=related

Statistics have shown that just presenting the cat from a concealed carry position is enough to stop the majority of attacks.

Seriously, the last two black bears I saw ran off when we banged some pots together. A .357 will be fine. Hopefully, when you see one in the wild you’ll reach for your spray (or pots) first and the .357 as a last resort.

 

[Mr. T]

I'm not sure the OP was saying that they were going to be shooting everything they see; they were wondering if the .357 Mag they had would be adequate defense against a black bear. Oh, and black bears do kill more people than any other type of bear in the typical year.

My wife and I were charged by one last fall as we were walking a dirt road on our property. She was a sow that we had seen earlier in the year with a single cub. The cub was not with her as we could see, but was maybe near by...of course it was the one time I left my Ruger in the truck...never again. She charged us with in 20 -25 yards and snapped and popped her teeth. We continually faced her, but maneuvered ourselves under a barbed wire fence that was seriously over grown. When we were safely on the other side of the fence she took off in the other direction. Had we stood our ground she would have ripped us to shreds; you could tell just by her demeanor. I've seen black bears plenty of times in the woods, and they don't typically act like that....8 to 9 times out of ten they just run off....it's that one time when they don't. Most of the time they are good natured...but just like a bull in the barn yard...you don't ever trust them and you don't ever turn your back on them. The last thing I would do is down play them to someone who may not have any experience with them; definitely don't make a boogey man out of them, but don't PETA/cartoonize them either. That's my only concern.