357mag for deer: 158gr vs 180 gr

[Fumbler]

I'm about to start trying to find an accurate and powerful load for my 357mag GP-100 in anticipation for next deer season.
I have decided on using Hornady XTP's, others don't penetrate enough or don't expand at all, others are just too expensive (Nosler Partition).

What I'd like to know from you all:
-I have read reports of broadside through and throughs on medium deer (the kind around where I live) with 140gr XTPs driven by near max loads. I would still use the 158 gr or 180gr to ensure sufficient penetration. Knowing that even the 140gr will go all the way through, should I go with the 158gr to gain around 100-200fps?

-I bought a box of the 180's and inside is a piece of paper that shows impact velocities that are optimum for each bullet. The 180gr ideal impact velocity is 1000-1750 fps.
I ran the 180gr@1150 fps muzzle velocity and it doesn't drop down below 1000 until 125 yards, much farther (3 times farther in fact) than I am comfortable shooting at
The ideal impact velocity for the 158 gr is 700-1400 fps. At 1250 fps it will stay above 1000 fps father than 150yards.
It seems like the 158gr is a little more forgiving, but at the range I'll be hunting at I will still be within optimum velocities for both. Should I pick a bullet that I can safely drive at the faster end of its optimum velocity?
Should this ideal impact velocity be of any concern to me?

-I'm using Blue Dot right now, what powders have you all found to be accurate at near max loads in a .357? I will pick up some H110 sometime.

-Have any of you had experience hunting with .357 XTP's or shooting with them in general?

Thanks for any input.
I know 357 is considered marginal by many, but I understand the cartridge's limitations and my own limitations. Right now I can put a cylinder full into a plate sized target at 50 yards with factory sights, but in the field I wouldn't trust myself to anything farther than 35 in an ideal position and 25 if I don't feel completely confident.

 

[mtnbkr]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I use the 180gr XTP in my 357mag load. I load it with 15.5gr of H110 and a mag primer. I trim about 1/16" off the case prior to loading. I started doing this when I was using Rem's 180g SJHP as it's a very long bullet with the crimp canneleure low on the bullet and needed the shorter case to stay in a reasonable OAL.. This load does 1300fps from my 4" GP100 (I chrono'ed a batch this summer). I get moderately flat primers, but I get this with anything greater than 38special +P level loads. The cases slide out with just a touch of resistance.

Accuracy is hard to gauge for me since I'm a terrible shot on paper targets. I have no problem hitting tin cans and such at 50yds shooting DA.

Chris

 

[Fumbler]

180gr@1300fps in a 4" GP

How much velocity are you getting with the 13.5gr max load?

What's the purpose of trimming the case? The XTP's I bought have two cannelures, are you crimping in the rear cannelure?
What's your OAL and case length?

 

[mtnbkr]

I was getting around 1050 with the 13.5gr load. I worked up to my current load in .5gr increments. I was just as cautious with the trimming. The first load took about 100rnds to develop, the 2nd load took about 20rnds.

I started trimming brass a hair short with the Remington SJHP 180gr. The bullet is long for it's weight and has a canneleure set low on the bullet. If I kept the brass at factory length, the loaded cartridge would just barely fit in the cylinder. Any bullet jump at all and it would tie up the gun. This happened to me, that's why I started trimming. I was actually trimming more than I am now.

When I started using the XTP, I went back to full length brass, but noticed a significant velocity drop (1200fps) and less accuracy (groups about 1/3 larger). So, I started trimming about half what I did for the Rem SJHP and got better accuracy and more velocity. The distance from the base of the bullet to the front canneleure is about 1/16" shorter than the distance of the base to the canneleure of the Remington bullet I was using. I trimmed the difference off the case and crimp in the front canneleure. If I crimped on the rear, I'd have to use 38special brass.

I fired nearly 1000 of the load using the Rem 180gr SJHP over 3-4 years (one 500cnt pack of bullets and several 100cnt packs). I've fired about 100 of the newer XTP load. The gun's still as tight as it was when I bought it.

Send me a PM to remind me about OAL and case length. I don't know them off the top of my head.

Chris

 

[Fumbler]

Thanks for the info.

Do you hunt?
If so what are your thoughts about 158gr XTP vs 180gr XTP?

 

[Poodleshooter]

I've shot a lot of the 125 XTP soft points (Yup,SP not HP). My experience with them was the same as using Remington or Winchester bulk bullets. Crimp is extremely important and deserves full mention along with other reloading specs when a magnum handgun cartridge, using slow powders like H110, is discussed. Those trim lengths must be consistent to get a good roll crimp. Without it, your velocities will be all over the place.
Like mtnbkr, I had to start low and move way above published specs to get any consistency or published velocity from H110/W296.
I'd pick the 158 if you promise to limit yourself to front, side or mildly quartering shots. I don't know if I'd try a rear shot with any .357Mag load,so perhaps the 180 really wouldn't buy you much advantage.

 

[mtnbkr]

Do you hunt? If so what are your thoughts about 158gr XTP vs 180gr XTP?

I hunt, but I haven't taken a deer with the 357 yet.

Chris

 

[mtnbkr]

Also, in addition to a good roll crimp, use fresh brass. I found out after using brass several times that it would work harden and not deliver consistent results. I replaced my brass and my results became more consistent. I won't reload a case more than twice now. Once it's out of my heavy mag rotation, I use it for lite mag stuff like a 158gr solid at 1000fps or for my 230gr@900fps (yes, 230gr in 357) pin load where crimp isn't as critical.

Chris

 

[Poodleshooter]

I found out after using brass several times that it would work harden and not deliver consistent results. I replaced my brass and my results became more consistent.

Was the brass length still consistent? I saw variations in my .357 brass lengths after multiple reloadings,and attributed the odd velocity variations to either that or powder drop problems.
Your case tension/brass hardness idea has me curious.

 

[mtnbkr]

Was the brass length still consistent?

Yes, I trimmed them every time. Most only needed a hair taken off though.

Chris