.36 vs .44 for a BP C&B revolver

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BCRider

BCRider

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Looks like I'm going to be getting the money to do my cowboy action setup in the next month or so. The PLAN is to buy a lever rifle and one SAA clone both in .357Mag/.38Spl since I'm also shooting some modern revolver but I want my second revolver to be a C&B as my intro to black powder. At the moment I'm pretty much set on getting a Remington 1858 clone but I'm curious about the pros and cons of the caliber choice.

And with you guys being the knowledgable sort I've found you to be I come begging for info and opinions.
 
I should have added "how's the thump from each?".

While I'm going with .38 over .45LC I'm doing that for commonality rather than avoiding some recoil. That and the cowboy .45LC loads I shot when one of the guys let me go through a stage with his gear were so downloaded that it felt like a whimpy .38 Spl. Meanwhile the THUMP from the guy shooting two C&B revolvers had me spellbound. One was a Colt army open top and the other a Walker. Boy, did that combo look Walker heavy to that side when seen in the holsters :D The Walker obviously had "presence" but the Colt open top wasn't any slouch either. Sadly I didn't ask him what caliber it was. The next CAS event is in a week or so. I'll make it a point to grill the BP guys for more first hand info that I can relate to my own observations.

Now if I could shoot .38 cast bullets in a Navy .36 that would be a plus once I start doing my own .38 reloading. Is that what you were suggesting? Is that even do-able?
 
You can if you end up getting a conversion cylinder,and some hollow based bullets.Blackpowder .36 round ball run about .375-.380, and modern cartridge bullets run .357-.359.
 
Since you have to have 2 revolvers to compete,and 1 is going to be a colt clone in 38/357 I assume.I think I would opt for the 36 cal cap and ball because when it's time to covert it ,and you probly will eventualy it will convert to a 38 however if you leave the barrel stock you will have to use a heeled bullet design.But if you want common ammo for all 3 guns you can have the barrel lined down to 357, and use regular 38's even though it's called a 36 cal the bore is actualy larger than a modern 38
 
I have no intention of converting the C&B to cartridge. The true goal is to get comfy enough with C&B to eventually get a second C&B to replace the SAA clone and shoot all BP for the revolver portion at least. At that point the SAA clone would act as a backup in case something goes kaflooey with one of the C&B guns.

Or if by some curse I can't come to terms with the whole C&B thing then I'd give up in shame and frustration and sell the Remington clone and buy a second SAA in .38/.357.

I may even try reloading some .357 casings with BP for an even more smokey show... :D

If I'm going to shoot cowboy I want to shoot COWBOY ! ! !:D

Anyone know how much BP I could get into a .38 casing or a .357 casing with a regular 158grn boolet on top of it?
 
.38 Long Colt -Six Shot: The .36 caliber percussion revolver barrel has a bore diameter of .375 inches. Today’s .38 caliber cartridges are loaded with .357-inch diameter bullets. To attain accuracy with a modern .38 caliber cartridge, in your reproduction Navy revolver, you must shoot soft lead .38 spec.hollow base wad cutter , .38 colt hollow base or .38 Colt healed ammunition. The soft lead hollow base bullet will “bump up” to the .375-inch bore diameter and shoot very accurately.

The chambers will actually accept .38 Special hollow base wadcutter cartridges, however the cylinder is too short and is not intended for use of the standard .38 special cartridge.

The cylinder has been made this way so that the shooter can use commercially loaded hollow base, soft lead bulleted ammunition, it is not intended for the regular .38 special cartridge.

http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/konverterFAQ.html
Click to expand...

.45 acp lead rounds don't cost as much .45 LC ammo, and .45 acp factory lead reloads are even available that are below 900 fps. in velocity. For the small fractions of an inch difference in diameter between the acp and the LC, it makes the .45 acp conversion seem more economically attractive and fulfilling. There are many .45 acp bullet weights and styles available for the reloader too, including .452 diameter bullets.

http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/konverter3.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt
 
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You could always go with the .45 Colt and load that with BP. They're anything but wimpy, and I reckon they're more cowboy than them pansie gamer loads. :) I've never fired anything but BP loads through my Ruger New Vaq in .45, and it sure is fun. Love the Cap&Ball though, too.
A .357 might not be bad though. Given rising costs, you can still get a nice BP boom, and use less lead in the process.



Does a .36 C&B have enough juice to knock down the plates? I'd expect so but might want to check. My C&B is a .44, haven't been fortunate enough to fire a .36 yet.
 
If you are intent on shooting C&B as your main match guns then I will recant my earlier post and say I would for sure go with the 44 over the 36.However since you wish to be a real cowboy if you do choose the 44 option your locking yourself out of the fine handeling 51 colt navy class of revolvers cause they did'nt make them in 44. As for myself,I've become mostly a remington man over the past 3 or 4 years,but I still like the looks of the 51's
 
Since one of my options up this way is to go Pietta I have the option of either .36 or .44 in all the options of 1851 Navy, 1860 Army as well as the 1858 Remington New Army. Now not all of these are authentic but they are an option. And with the price being lower than the Uberti options I'm tempted to go with Pietta given the feelings about them I've read here at THR.

The concern about the .36 not having enough oomph to kick over any knockdown targets is a valid point. The only event I've seen so far didn't have knockdowns other than for shotgun. But that could well change at some other venues.
 
90% of my 15+C&B revolvers are in 44 cal. The 36 is fine however as we rarely have knockdown targets anymore. I started CAS in 1992 and went BP/FM in 1993. If any knockdowns (KDs) came up I used the LEE 130gr conical in the 36s and it did fine. They shoot a little higher than the .375 ball. My main match guns for several years were a pair of 44 cal 1851 Navies made by ASM. The ASMs have the original shaped grip that was used in the 1873 SAA. I had the handling of the navy with the knockdown of the Army 44. I currently am partial to the Remingtons made by Uberti or Euroarms. The Remmies have fewer cap jams and hold a little more powder plus there is room for the LEE 200gr conical if there are any BIG poppers to drop. The Colts generally won't accept a 200gr conical without removing some metal from under the barrel. The Pietta Remmies have always worked well for people. For me they were a little heavy. Each make of Remington has a different weight and grip shape. The Euros being the smallest and lightest and the Piettas the largest and heaviest with Uberti in between.

The 38 spl will hold about 18grs BP (357 takes about 21) but I would recommend you use the Snakebite bullet as it carries enough lube to shoot all day long in the 38/357. I was unable to get any other bullet to do that until I switched to 777 for the 357 which will propel any bullet and lube.
 
Hellgate, that helps a lot. Thanks for the first hand report.

Found some BP reloading info at the Goex web site. The numbers for loading BP in .38 and .357 for velocities don't look all that shabby.

Mind you I also found some info about concerns over spark induced ignition if we use the wrong powder handling equipment.
 
BC Rider: When i was working up 357 loads of BP & various subs, shooting at 50 yards ws like this:

BP, APP, Black Canyon, Black Mag3: POW.........ding!
777: POW....DING

The 777 hit faster and harder. somewhat between a full power smokeless load and a BP load. It's all I use now. The reason I did not buy the Snakebite 6 cavity mold is because I could not get ABSOLUTE reliable FEEDING in BOTH of my Rossi '92s. I have been able to get that from all but a few other shaped bullets (SWC, RN, RNFP). Marlins are less particular. The '66s & '73s seem to feed well as long as the OAL isn't too long.
 
BC Rider: When I was working up 357 loads of BP & various subs, shooting at 50 yards was like this:

BP, APP, Black Canyon, Black Mag3: POW.........ding!
777: POW....DING

The 777 hit faster and harder. Somewhat between a full power smokeless load and a BP load. It's all I use now. The reason I did not buy the Snakebite 6 cavity mold is because I could not get ABSOLUTE reliable FEEDING in BOTH of my Rossi '92s. I have been able to get that from all but a few other shaped bullets (SWC, RN, RNFP are OK). Marlins are less particular. The '66s & '73s seem to feed well as long as the OAL isn't too long.
 
Hey BC Rider,
You ought to go to the Renton, WA Westmatch. It's like a carnival. No stand & deliver stages. You gotta do stuff like knock down poppers with the pistol, get arrows shot at you while shooting, hit bad guys who's pants fall off when kilt, blow up safes, etc ALL ON THE CLOCK!. They put the ACTION in Cowboy Action Shooting.
Hellgate
 
BOY! When the stars and planets come into alignment they really kick in with a BANG!

After looking around at all the options for the past month and a half and finding nothing at all other than new I just found and paid for a pair of Uberti Remington New Army's that have only seen light and slight use. They are blued with brass trigger guards and the package comes with an extra cylinder. And although it's not a big deal to me the serial numbers are consecutive.

On top of that a question about where to find BP and caps on the Canadian forum I hang out in as well turned up a local with some stuff to sell. So provided the caps fit I'm all set to go play with the new toys shortly after the transfers are done and they come home with me.

I guess the next search will be for a rig to hold this pair of fine shootin' irons.
 
Unlike down in the US it takes about a week for the ownership transfer to go through. There'll be pics posted up about 20 minutes after they come through my door.... just so I don't leave you with any sort of valid complaint.... :D
 
We'll complain anyway . . . pics are too dark, too fuzzy, too far away, too close, too big, too small . . . you know, the regular routine. ;)
 
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