375 Ruger

[358Hoosier]

The TSA now allows ammo to be packed in the same case with the rifle so if you arrive with one, you arrive with the other.

OH NO...their goes there biggest argument ! Besides, anyone worth two spits in a bucket who goes on a high price hunting trip should be going with their own carefully crafted hand loads that are tailored for his/her rifle, in order to eek out the maximum ballistic and terminal effects of their chosen weapon...everyone knows that. We're deep in brass as well, for ALL calibers

The RUGER will do MORE than what the H&H will do in a shorter, handier, lighter, less expensive rifle that has a shorter bolt throw. It throws all weights 100+fps faster in the same length barrel. Cut off several inches and you still get better, or equal, velocity. The cartridge is non-belted and has a shoulder (promotes accuracy and longer brass life). There are many reasons tapered cartridges are no longer designed today. Oh, I know I know...your H&H will shoot the hair off a flies feathers at 200yds. Well, my Ruger will do the same.

Heard of all the people in Texas (a hot place) complaining about extraction in their similar pressure and tapered cartridges (like any varmint cartridge, or plains game cartridge...research it)...neither have I. That argument is a straw-man. Their are many cartridges, such as the Ruger, with similar pressures and taper that have NO problem extracting. The guy saying that must've been around when this was an issue...when cordite pressures spiked in the heat.This may have been an issue back in the day with some dandy-doubles shooting hot cordite loads. But it is no longer an issue with modern powders and Mauser claw extraction such as the Ruger has. With modern powders this is a NON-ISSUE...and a weak straw-man argument at that.

Yet somehow the H&H is said to be better by Llama Bob...he says the opposite from the truth so many times that he believes it to be the new truth. I've posted it above. Curious how the H&H is better than a modern cartridge that outshines it on all fronts, lol. Nostalgia is a very strong force, I guess.

Purists just have a hard time dealing with reality and facts sometimes.

 

[Llama Bob]

My opinion is that you choose the rifle, then the chambering. I'd rather have a rifle that fits me (Guide gun with 12 3/4" LOP) chambered in a proprietary cartridge than a rifle that didn't fit me chambered in a classic cartridge.

You do realize that length of pull has nothing to do with the length of the cartridge or action, right?

 

[Llama Bob]

This may have been an issue back in the day with some dandy-doubles shooting hot cordite loads. But it is no longer an issue with modern powders and Mauser claw extraction such as the Ruger has.

Tell that to all the people shooting .458 WM loaded with then-current ball powders out of model 70s.

Your post is a perfect example of the profound ignorance on display in this thread with respect to the history of safari cartridges and their performance. Don't bet your life on your lack of knowledge, folks.

 

[CraigC]

It was supposed to be just like the .450 NE, only almost an inch shorter and chambered in lighter, cheaper guns.

The .450 is a rimmed blackpowder cartridge designed for double rifles. The .458 was designed for boltguns and smokeless powder.

It's not going to be any more useful in Alaska with no ammo and no brass than it will be in Africa.

Moot point and you haven't been right yet. Aside from the new TSA rule, you can easily ship your ammo to your Alaskan outfitter.

The point about heat and powder issues is also moot. This ain't the 1960's and most people aren't going to Africa at peak heat anyway. There's no reason to. Here in the South, it gets mighty hot & humid in the summer, which is inevitably when most of my testing gets done. Easy enough to replicate the worst conditions encountered in Africa. Besides, I'm quite certain that Steve Hornady has been to Africa once or twice. The cartridge operates at the same pressure as the .308Winchester. Never had an issue with other 62,000psi cartridges in 100° heat. This is just another straw argument with no merit.

Buy a few hundred rounds of brass if you're scared of running out. 200rds would be a lifetime supply. I would have that much on hand anyway. The .338RCM probably really is going away but I don't really care. I have dies and 250rds of brass. It replicates the .338-06 in a 7lb, 20" barreled rifle and that's all that matters. Probably another cartridge you'd call "junk".

You do realize that length of pull has nothing to do with the length of the cartridge or action, right?

It has everything to do with the way a rifle fits, which was the point.

Your post is a perfect example of the profound ignorance on display in this thread with respect to the history of safari cartridges and their performance. Don't bet your life on your lack of knowledge, folks.

There is definitely some profound ignorance in this thread, Bob.

 

[ljnowell]

I've learned a lot from following this thread. Thanks to all that contributed.

 

[Llama Bob]

The .450 is a rimmed blackpowder cartridge designed for double rifles. The .458 was designed for boltguns and smokeless powder.

I said .450 NE, not .450 BPE. Stop embarrassing yourself. The N stands for "Nitro" obviously. It's clear you know nothing about safari cartridges.

 

[CraigC]

I said .450 NE, not .450 BPE. Stop embarrassing yourself. The N stands for "Nitro" obviously. It's clear you know nothing about safari cartridges.

Oh really? I know enough to know that the NE is simply the BPE loaded with cordite. The point being, the .450 is a very large, highly capacious cartridge due to being originally loaded with blackpowder. The reason the .458WM is much shorter is because the use of modern propellants doesn't require as much capacity. Plus it fits tidily into a boltgun. You're comparing apples to oranges. Perhaps it is YOU who is not quite so informed as you seem to think?

Now can we get back on topic?

 

[Llama Bob]

Oh really? I know enough to know that the NE is simply the BPE loaded with cordite.

Wrong again. Think like that, and you'll lose some fingers. They're interchangeable ONLY IF THE RIFLE HAS A NITRO PROOF STAMP. Just load the BPE with cordite, and be prepared for the obvious trouble.

It's quite clear you need to be in learning mode rather than pretend expert mode in this thread. You're going to get someone hurt if they actually listen to you.

 

[Elkins45]

What happens if it doesn't fail, Bob? How sad will you be? I ask because you are so obviously filled with some sort of strange, euphoric glee at the thought of a useful new cartridge going extinct.

Your contributions to this thread feel a little like eyeglass wearers berating people who want contact lenses. It's no skin off your nose in either case.

 

[Llama Bob]

I don't have any investment in it one way or the other. The information is simply provided so that people researching the cartridge know about its deficiencies. I don't want those people to get duped into buying the rifles only to find themselves without ammo or brass when Hornady does what Nosler already did and gets off the sinking ship.

More generally, there are too many new rifle cartridges. Even good ones frequently die or become handload-only because the market is so fragmented. As a shooting community we'd be well served by getting shooters into a smaller number of cartridges with larger rifle bases. In the context of dangerous game cartridges, it's also important to put reliability first.

 

[CraigC]

Wrong again. Think like that, and you'll lose some fingers. They're interchangeable ONLY IF THE RIFLE HAS A NITRO PROOF STAMP. Just load the BPE with cordite, and be prepared for the obvious trouble.

I'm not wrong and I never said they were interchangeable. You acted as if the two were completely different cartridges. They are not. The difference between the BPE and the NE is simply the propellant used. It should be rather obvious that one would not want to fire a smokeless load in a rifle not proved for such loads.

It's quite clear you need to be in learning mode rather than pretend expert mode in this thread. You're going to get someone hurt if they actually listen to you.

Coming from the guy who has spewed nothing but irrational nonsense throughout this whole thread, I'll take that silly comment as a compliment.

I don't have any investment in it one way or the other. The information is simply provided so that people researching the cartridge know about its deficiencies. I don't want those people to get duped into buying the rifles only to find themselves without ammo or brass when Hornady does what Nosler already did and gets off the sinking ship.

Sorry but you've gone a long way from "providing information". All you have provided is MISinformation. You obviously have an axe to grind, for some unknown reason.

The Nosler offerings are listed as "coming soon", not discontinued.


Now can we get back to .375's???

FACT (inconvenient for some but true): The H&H (and a whole bunch of others) comes from a time when smokeless powders were in their infancy. They were bulky and needed almost as much room as blackpowder. They operated at lower pressures, a product of the guns and steels available at the time. Things have changed. We know more about internal/external/terminal ballistics. We have better steels. We have better bullets and we have better propellants. All undeniable facts. We can now effectively achieve the same ballistics with less powder capacity and in shorter barrels, which results in smaller cartridges, which results in shorter actions and shorter rifles. The .375Ruger is but one example of this. The .416Ruger is another. None of this is an insult to those cartridges, their history or the things that brave men have accomplished with them. Nor does it preclude the need for those proven cartridges on the market or the desire for some to own them. It just means for those looking for a lighter, shorter, easier to carry option, they're available.

I could've done the same thing with my .416. The Ruger version does the same thing in a shorter, lighter package. Same for the .416Rem but to a lesser extent. That didn't matter. I wanted more of a classic safari rifle in a classic safari cartridge. So I chose the CZ .416Rigby. I compromised on mass for nostalgia and a rifle that's easier to shoot. Of course, I also wanted a rifle I could later convert to .500Jeffery.

Ruger is currently offering SEVEN different rifles in the .375 chambering, including two new configurations and Savage offers two. I'd say it's a long way from dead.

 

[horsemen61]

ttrl

 

[Llama Bob]

MORE misinformation from CraigC. The piezo pressure specs for .375 Ruger and .375 H&H are the same - 62KPSI in both cases.

Seriously, just quit while you're way behind. Or stick around, don't display your "knowledge", and learn something. Your choice. But every time you touch fingers to keyboard you're wrong.

 

[CraigC]

That's all you chose to respond to? I don't guess that helps your bogus argument about heat, does it?

Yes, in that particular case the Ruger cartridge has virtually the same case capacity as the bigger H&H. It's just shorter and fatter with less taper to fit into standard long actions.

 

[Llama Bob]

Well, now you're doing a hair better - the cases have essentially the same case capacity (with a 300gr bullet at typical OAL) and exactly the same max pressure. So all this talk about obsolete oversize black powder cartridges is just you wasting everyone's time.

Of course, that renders everything you said after that irrelevant and/or wrong.

 

[Corn-Picker]

You do realize that length of pull has nothing to do with the length of the cartridge or action, right?

I'm aware. What I'm not aware of is a 12 3/4" LOP stainless steel 375 H&H with 20" barrel, which is what the Ruger Guide gun basically is. I suppose I could spend several thousand on a 375 H&H built to my specs, but why would I do that when there's a 375 configured just the way I want it for $1,000?

You guys can argue about caliber all you want, in my opinion you should choose the rifle that fits best first, then worry about caliber. This whole Ruger vs H&H debate seems like bunch of mental masturbation to me.

 

[358Hoosier]

Tell that to all the people shooting .458 WM loaded with then-current ball powders out of model 70s.

Your post is a perfect example of the profound ignorance on display in this thread with respect to the history of safari cartridges and their performance. Don't bet your life on your lack of knowledge, folks.

The rest of us are talking about RIGHT NOW. You couldn't refute any of the points that I made (since they are factual), and yet you claim that "I" am the ignorant. one...that's rich even for you bob.. Clearly facts aren't on your side.

 

[AKMtnRunner]

It's not going to be any more useful in Alaska with no ammo and no brass than it will be in Africa. On the plus side I guess it will be a weather-resistant club

Except you can find 375 Ruger ammo on quite a few shelves here in Alaska.



Beginning to think this guy is just a troll.

 

[CraigC]

So all this talk about obsolete oversize black powder cartridges is just you wasting everyone's time.

YOU brought up the .450.

Beginning to think this guy is just a troll.

Me too!

 

[Llama Bob]

YOU brought up the .450.

The .450 NE isn't black powder. You've already had this explained to you, and it's really not that hard. Pay attention.

 

[Llama Bob]

Except you can find 375 Ruger ammo on quite a few shelves here in Alaska.

And what happens when Hornady decides to stop losing money on it?

 

[MCMXI]

The RUGER will do MORE than what the H&H will do in a shorter, handier, lighter, less expensive rifle that has a shorter bolt throw. It throws all weights 100+fps faster in the same length barrel. Cut off several inches and you still get better, or equal, velocity.

That 3+1 Ruger Guide Gun is over 8lb without a scope, rings, bases or sling! My 4+1 Talkeetna (at 42.5" long) is 9lb all in and that's with a fairly heavy Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40mm scope, Talley stainless steel rings and bases and a 1-1/4" wide leather sling. In my experience the bolt throw argument is very much overrated with how smooth the action strips and feeds a round being far more important. I have to wonder how smooth that Guide Gun action is, particularly in .375 Ruger. Most footage I've seen of Ruger rifles makes me think that they don't feed that well but that's just a thought. I like and own Ruger revolvers and a Mini-14 so I'm not against the brand by any means.

As for the velocity claims, why is the Hornady Superperformance .375 Ruger GMX 250gr load 2,900 fps from a 24" barrel and their Superperformace .375 H&H 250gr GMX load only 10fps slower at 2,890 fps?

http://m.hornady.com/store/375-Ruger-250-Gr.-GMX-Superformance/

http://m.hornady.com/store/375-H-and-H-250-Gr.-375-GMX-Superformance/

The cartridge is non-belted and has a shoulder (promotes accuracy and longer brass life). There are many reasons tapered cartridges are no longer designed today.

Anyone that reloads belted magnums can easily figure out how to get excellent case life and outstanding accuracy, it's not difficult. In addition I've found many factory belted magnum loads to be very accurate with five-shot groups easily sub moa and some much closer to 1/2 moa.

I couldn't in good faith recommend the .375 Ruger to anyone over the .375 H&H since I don't really see any real advantages but I do see a number of disadvantages. There's a good comparison in the link below.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/375-ruger-vs-375-hh-magnum/

 

[ljnowell]

It's a shame when one person out to make every post personal ruins a good thread.

 

[AKMtnRunner]

And what happens when Hornady decides to stop losing money on it?

Yet another argument based on your assumption that factory ammo won't continue. Unless you're privy to Hornady's books, your guess is as good as mine.

But either way, I'm set up well with reloading components, along with many others.

 

[Elkins45]

And what happens when Hornady decides to stop losing money on it?

How do you know they are losing money?

You've gone well beyond the bend of rational on this one.