.38 Short Colt

Catpop

Catpop

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I just read Brad Miller’s article in the Feb 23 issue of Shooting Times. It really got me to thinking.
Anyone reloading this cartridge?
Can .38 Short Colt brass be made from .357 mag brass simply by reducing the length?
 
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I actually cut down some 38 spl to make some 9mm rimmed. The case length is the same. Use a tubing cutter to get close to length and a case trimmer to finish.
 
Yes, it can, but the cases will have a slightly smaller capacity than those trimmed from 38 special or purpose built for 38 SC. Be careful if you use trimmed 357 Mag cases in antique guns with smokeless powder.
 
I load 38 Short Colt.

I cut down some 38 Spl. brass with a tube cutter to see if I could load it with the 9mm dies I had. Once I determined it was possible I just bought some brass from Starline.

If I were going to cut brass I would buy a small electric chop saw to make it. I don't have one and when I looked at the cost, time involved to cut it, trim it and ream it, I just bought the new brass, even though I have thousands of 38 Spl. cases.

Not every ones choice. I realize some people just want to make it themselves. Like making your own bullets. I don't do that either.

I might add, it's a slick little cartridge for J frames.
 
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Starline sells brass. Remington and a couple other manufacturers sell a modern version of 38 Short Colt. I prefer the Remington brass for reloading.

Depending on the 357 mag brass you may or may not have issues with the web of the case causing issues with seating once you have cut them to 38 Short Colt length.

Depending on you intentions, Remember the original 38 Short Colt used a .380 diameter healed in bullet, and was for Remington cap and ball conversion revolvers. The modern version is just a really short 38/357.
 
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Starline brass is the way to go. I buy 1000 cases and use them for about a year then get a new bunch. They last a long time but I'm stubborn.

You can use 9 mm load data to start with.
 
I couldn’t stand it and had to go try this 38 Short Colt thing!
I cut down five 38 spc cases with a 4 1/2” grinder and cutoff disc. I finished them up on my Lyman universal trimmer.
I loaded them up with 2.2 gr BE and seated some 148 gr pc DEWCs (sized after pc to .358.)
Rather than set up all the dies I just seated them to 1.00” in my 6” bench vice.
B6D3085D-354A-4233-97D4-45928F0659B3.jpeg E2E05BA6-54A7-4E7A-862F-8CB0156B0E36.jpeg They produced the above target! One boolit at each yardage! SW M10 4” standard barrel. Pine tree steady only, no bench rest.
And POA=POI also!
I couldn’t believe it!
I like this 38 Short Colt thing.
More testing is definitely in order!
 
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AzShooter1 said:
Starline brass is the way to go. I buy 1000 cases and use them for about a year then get a new bunch. They last a long time but I'm stubborn.

You can use 9 mm load data to start with.
Click to expand...


I think that depends on what you shoot it in. Lots of older 38 Spl revolvers might not like that load. 38 Spl. has a max pressure of 17,5K psi where 9x19 is 35K psi. I wouldn't shoot a 9x19 load in my older J frame.

Lots of people shooting the 9 x 19 loads in heavier revolvers and that's fine.
 
Catpop said:
I couldn’t stand it and had to go try this 38 Short Colt thing!
I cut down five 38 spc cases with a 4 1/2” grinder and cutoff disc. I finished them up on my Lyman universal trimmer.
I loaded them up with 2.2 gr BE and seated some 148 gr pc DEWCs.
Rather than set up all the dies I just seated them to 1.00” in my 6” bench vice.
View attachment 1131629 View attachment 1131630 They produced the above target! One boolit at each yardage! SW M10 4” standard barrel.
I couldn’t believe it!
I like this 38 Short Colt thing.
More testing is definitely in order!
Click to expand...


I think this Short Colt thing will catch on, if it hasn't already.

I'm using 125 grn RN bullets and 2.8 grns of American Select. AS is a bit slower than Bullseye but not much. If I were using heavier bullets I'd dial the powder charge back some.

I don't have any targets to post. All I can say is I'm on a 16x16 target at 25 yds with a J frame snubbie. I never could shoot it that well with 38 loads.

Up next is trying these loads in a 6" K frame. That should be interesting.
 
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mcb said:
Starline sells brass. Remington and a couple other manufacturers sell a modern version of 38 Short Colt. I prefer the Remington brass for reloading.

Depending on the 357 mag brass you may or may not have issues with the web of the case causing issues with seating once you have cut them to 38 Short Colt length.

Depending on you intentions, Remember the original 38 Short Colt used a .380 diameter healed in bullet, and was for Remington cap and ball conversion revolvers. The modern version is just a really short 38/357.
Click to expand...
You know what these guys trying .38SC for the first time need?

Moonclips!!!! :rofl:
 
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CoalTrain49 said:
I'm new to this.

Are the cylinders cut for clips for competition?

I did it for plinking.
Click to expand...
No, they are not. You can send you gun to TKCustom.com. He does fantastic work and has great turnaround times. I had him do my Model 29.

In ICORE the .38 Short Cult ruled the matches until the 929 came out and people started shooting 9 mm. It still has a good following for guns that are cut for moons.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
I'm new to this.

Are the cylinders cut for clips for competition?

I did it for plinking.
Click to expand...

Many competitors do so they can use moonclips for faster ejection and loading. But since the 38 SC are so short they often eject reliably even when you don't use moonclips, and you can use speedloaders for loading.
 
AzShooter1 said:
No, they are not. You can send you gun to TKCustom.com. He does fantastic work and has great turnaround times. I had him do my Model 29.

In ICORE the .38 Short Cult ruled the matches until the 929 came out and people started shooting 9 mm. It still has a good following for guns that are cut for moons.
Click to expand...
Are there any good sites with sample loading recipes? Reinventing the wheel can be fun but it also helps to see how many wheels are already around.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
I'm new to this.

Are the cylinders cut for clips for competition?

I did it for plinking.
Click to expand...

Yes if the revolver is chambered in a rimmed cartridge the cylinder will need to be modified to give space for the moonclip. A few models come from the factor moonclips ready. Most others can be made moonclip ready with a simple machining operation on the face of the cylinder. If the revolver is chambered in a rimless cartridge than they almost always come moonclip ready with a few exception for a small handful of models with special ejectors that can get into the recessed rim and eject the rimless cartridge but those are pretty rare compared to moonclip fed rimless revolvers.

H3sJZTkl.jpg Zj361IYl.jpg
The cylinder of a S&W 625. Notice the whole face is the same level and the moonclip rest on that and provide head space for the cartridges. Most rimless revolvers will still fire without the moonclip head spacing on the case mouth as seen in the right picture but ejection is more difficult.

8pbC9Rql.jpg ZLw6XZGl.jpg
A S&W 627 cylinder. Left: Loaded with 7 rounds without a moonclip, but notice the recess in the cylinder. This is the clearance for the moonclip. In the right picture you can see the moonclip in the recess holding 8-rounds. By leaving the rim around the outside of the cylinder in a rimmed cartridge revolver the cartridges can head space on that rim when loaded without the moonclip. This make the moonclip optional for a rimmed revolver and they fire and eject normally.

Oh yeah. ICORE competition has been using moonclips in several divisions for years and was the first of the more modern "practical" oriented pistol sports to use 38 Short Colt. USPSA has been using moonclip feed revolver for years too. Before 2014 the S&W 625 was king in the Revolver division with 6-shots of 45 ACP on moonclips. In 2014 when the USPSA finally let the 7 & 8 shot revolvers play a lot of competitors switched to shooting 38 Short Colt in 8-shot 357 Magnum S&W 627's on moonclips. 38 Short Colt was king for a year or two and then got surpassed by the S&W 929 using 8-shot 9mm on moonclips. IDPA had a division for moonclip fed revolvers for years and later combine it with the speed-loader division. Moonclips can still be used but has a higher power factor requirement. IDPA has never allowed 38 Short Colt to be used in a 38 Special or 357 Magnum revolver.

And in an interesting twist of IDPA's strange and poorly written rules you are not allowed to use a revolver chambered in 38 S&W but that is another very interesting if messy can of worms.

ETA: if you go using recipes for 38 Short Colt you find from the USPSA or ICORE crowd remember they are loading that 38 Short Colt really hot for big heavy strong 357 Magnum revolvers. Our 38 Short Colt loads are producing pressures up around 30,000 psi give or take a few thousand. Think real hard before using those loads in a 38 Special.
 
I load .38 Long and Short Colt with heeled bullets for conversion cylinders in percussion revolvers.

I just buy appropriate brass.

I do not(!) use 9mm data.

I have not yet figured out how to include moon clips in the game but am open to suggestions. :p
 
.38 Special said:
I load .38 Long and Short Colt with heeled bullets for conversion cylinders in percussion revolvers.

I just buy appropriate brass.

I do not(!) use 9mm data.

I have not yet figured out how to include moon clips in the game but am open to suggestions. :p
Click to expand...
I load .38LC for a modern Taylor’s small frame single action. It’s a sweet shooter, marked for .38LC/Spl. Frame mounted firing pin so it’s not a reproduction of anything, just a nice little revolver.
 
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