38 sp+p+

[Dimis]

I came across a few random rounds in my ammo cans (that I inherited) that are stamped .38 SP +P+

I know that for the most part you can shoot +P in my LCR but I dont want to risk these in it

I have a 357 OLD Vaquero can I safely shoot them from that gun?

Its probably a duh no brainer but what is the load difference in +P+ vs +P vs 357mag?

I just want to make sure Im not hurting anything on the Vaquero as its one of my favorite guns

Oh and the ammo looks to be in very good condition so Im not worried about it being old
There is no corrosion or signs of damage

I only have about 10-15 rounds of the stuff and wanted to send it down range the next time I go

 

[MedWheeler]

If I recall correctly, the +P+ rounds were marketed for law enforcement only in the 1980s, and I really don't know for how long they were (or still are?) in production. I shot a few back then when I was in LE, but our service round (before the switch to 9mm) were +P-only, not +P+. Other factors being equal, such as bullet type and weight, I think the power was roughly 70 percent of a .357 Magnum round, and the +P-only maybe half a Magnum round. I'd ask Ruger before sending any of them downrange in the LCR. Any Magnum revolver will handle them with ease.
I've shot ammo in various calibers from back then with no issues related to age. I actually still have five rounds of my old service ammo left, which was 95-grain Winchester Silvertips. I don't know why I have just five; I'm guessing that when I left, I did not turn in the rounds in my BUG. I also have two boxes of standard, commercially-sourced, reloads the department issued for practice. I left that agency in 1990.

 

[GRIZ22]

Shoot them in a 357 magnum revolver and they will be no problem.

SAAMI has no limit for +P+. If a round exceeds +P specs it is +P+ with no top limit on pressure.

 

[1911Tuner]

.38 +P+ is the old 110 grain JHP loading known as the "Treasury Load." I have some of it.
I don't know what the working pressures are, but they're not even in the same ballpark as .357 Magnum. I chronographed some of it through a 4-inch Model 10 and got about 1050 fps average for 10 shots. Pretty hot, but no world burner. That Ruger will laugh at it.

 

[SaxonPig]

I shot some +P+ once and found it disappointing. All the +s and the Ps are mostly marketing hype. No 38 Special... let me say this again since so many folks don't seem to get this... NO 38 SPECIAL LOAD EVEN APPROACHES 357 MAGNUM PRESSURES. Calling ANY 38 Special load "357 level" or "near 357 level" is simply not correct.

Standard 38: 16,500 PSI (This is so pathetic it's a joke.)

+P: 18,500 PSI (This has everybody all worked up in fear?)

Maximum allowable 38: 21,500 (The mighty 38/44 load, the "specialty" loads and likely the +P+ is here although the one lot of +P+ I tested fell short of this level.)

357 Magnum: 35,000 (Any further comparisons to the 38 Special?)

 

[Jim Watson]

Not all +P+ is hype.
There was once a gunzine feature article with pressure tests of Corbon ammunition. Everything was running at or near SAAMI maximum, good hot high performance ammo, as advertised. Except the .38 Special +P+. It was at 94% of their .357 Magnum chamber pressure. They don't catalog that load any more but there might be some left out there and there are other brands.
So don't put +P+ in your 1955 Airweight and smoke it, it might be the real thing.

 

[Old Fuff]

Jim is right. SAAMI never established pressure standards for +P+ ammunition, so therefore performance can run all over the map. It came about because some police departments that carried .357 Magnum revolvers wanted a .38 Special round that wouldn't carry the negative image that Magnum ammunition had in some (mostly liberal/progressive) circles. In other words it was a child of political correctness, but never-the-less a sometimes potent one. It does not pose a risk in any .357 Magnum revolver, but it could in some .38 Special's

 

[1911Tuner]

Just a note:

The 110-grain "Treasury Load" was issued to Treasury and FBI agents for use in their 3-inch round butt Model 13s. Although the +P+ designation didn't provide the raw power that it suggested...it wasn't a weak sister, either. A 110-grain hollowpoint with a soft lead core expands pretty violently, and because of the low mass...it didn't tend to overpenetrate in frontal shots.

Pretty decent load, but not "Low End" .357 performance as was claimed.

 

[Dimis]

thanks everybody I shot it up today at the range and as stated before the ruger just kinda laughed at it

I wasnt expecting some super load but I expected a bit more ooomph from it than what I got
It felt hotter (in my palm-o-graph) than a normal +p but didnt come close to a magnum which isnt bad at all in the heavy vaquero anyway

glad its gone so I cant accidentally throw it in my LCR or someone elses gun by mistake

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I knew agents that shot +P+ in their airweights. I tried to tell them that it would strech their frames. When Winchester had the contract their ammo was true +P+, but when Federal got the contract it was +P even though it was marked +P+.

Pressure from w/w was around 25K psi. The Treasury specs called for 1000fps from a 2" barrel and yes it had a very good record.

Like Mr. Watson said about Corbon's +P original load. I had 2 boxes of that stuff and I'm telling you it was a .357 load if there ever was one. Like the Treasury load it was a 110 gr. bullet, but loaded to .357 pressures or pretty close. I didn't shoot that much in my j frame as it was smoking hot. Their new ammo is tame compared to the original loading.

 

[Rexster]

This ammo was marketed during an era when some PD and agency admin types did not like the "Magnum" designation, for various reasons, political and otherwise. I remember those days. "Magnum" was a hot-button word back then, varying somewhat by region. I don't want this thread to stray into politics; just pointing out that .38 Special +P+ was seen as a viable solution during a certain era.

If I were to be gifted a case or two of this, I would feed it to my Rugers. It actually does still exist; I was offered the opportunity to buy some of this, by the case, only a few years ago, but the asking price was still above newer training ammo, for some quite old stuff, so I passed.

 

[9mmepiphany]

My old department issued the Treasury load for a while...the Winchester loading...as we usually piggybacked off the CHP contract.

The CHP really went the extra step...being a state agency...and had S&W make them a non-cataloged gun for duty issue. It was the M68, which was a M66 chambered in .38 special...it was also the first stainless K-frame to be manufactured with a 6" barrel (the M66 was only offered in 2.5" and 4" at the time)

 

[gamestalker]

I load 110 gr. XTPs and Gold Dots for 38 special all the time using HS6 and Longshot with velocities near 1300 fps. I shoot these through my S&W 10-5 and my .357's without any problems at all. So I would venture to guess that a factory +P+ is going to be wimpy in comparison.

 

[oldbear]

Federal still makes a 147Gr. +P+ 38 special load. It is Federals policy to sell this round to L.E.O'S only, but from time some of the on-line ammo houses will have a supply for sale. I recently ordered 200 rounds from Ammo To Go.

 

[sidheshooter]

As others have noted, +P+ just means that the pressures generated by the load in question fall outside of the SAAMI specs for +P, in whatever calibre. Outside by how much is the question-but not for your Ruger-it will eat it all.

The 147 +P+ load that was the last FBI revolver load is pretty mild: still under 1000 fps on Federal's website, IIRC.

On the other hand, I have shot a ton of cor-bon's +P+ 158 LSWCHP round that was designed to duplicate the old RCMP issue load. I'm here to tell you that Dudley Do-Right was not under gunned. That load will exceed 1000 fps from 3 inches of K frame. It also smacks a bowling pin with authority, FWIW. That's what's in my nightstand GP100, since I still have a few boxes laying around.

 

[2ndAmFan]

I think Buffalo Bore still sells +p+. I haven't tried any of it though. I bought some of their +p 124 gr 9mm and it seems pretty hot though I don't have a chrono to check velocity. Let's just say it makes my little G26 jump in my hand more than any other round I've tried, and I'm considering giving the rest of the BB +p to my stepson who has a G19 which IMO is better suited to the round.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

The Brassfetcher and myself tested some of the Buffalo Bore .38 +p. From my 2" snubbie we got just over 1000fps from their 158gr. and about 1100 from their 125 gr. jhp. Buffalo Bore 125 from my 4" went 1287fps. That's nipping at the heels of a .357 with today's factory loadings.

We also tested the Federal +P+ from a 4" and only got 1000fps and the bullet pretty much went to pieces.

 

[Jim K]

I had some boxes someplace of +P+ .38 Special marked "Use only in revolvers made for 357 Magnum." Fuff is correct on the origin, and in my limited experience at least some of it is very hot, equal to some of the loads I fired in my .38-44 HD, and those were darned hot!

Jim

 

[Photoman]

I've shot a lot of the Federal 147gr +P+ in my K frames with not harm done. I wouldn't worry a bit shooting that ammo out of a Ruger single action.