.38 Special 125 gr. XTP and Unique

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Vodoun da Vinci

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My Wife is sensitive to recoil due to being a small person and having a little arthritis in her hands/wrists. We have been shooting a lot trying to find her "Soul Mate" and potential CCW piece. She shoots revolvers naturally and intuitively so we picked up a Ruger LCR in .38 Sp. Started her on factory .38 - American Eagle 130 gr. FMJ standard pressure loads. She hits well and dun't flinch but it's a little stiff until she gets more confidence.

I had some 158 gr. RNFP lead loads using 4.3 gr. of Unique that she hammers a target with using a Dan Wesson .357 with heavy vent with 4" barrel but that round (even in my hands) is pretty stingy in the 2" lightweight LCR. I'm gonna load the 158 gr. RNFP lead a little lighter at 3.9 gr of Unique and just got a "deal" on 400 Hornady 125 gr. XTP bullets that I wanna load for her.

I need a milder load for the 125 gr. XTP's using Unique as that is what I use and have a lot of on hand. I have never loaded jacketed bullets for .38 and have heard that really low power rounds can leave a jacket in the barrel. We'll be *really* careful but we need low recoil stuff to get her acclimated and move her forward slowly.

My books and some research shows a 125 gr. jacketed HP and 4.8 gr. of Unique to be a starting load. Do I dare dumb this down to 4.4 gr or is that not a good idea?

Thanks in advance!!

VooDoo
 
Lyman #49 shows the 125 XTP and Unique.
4.0 Start load = 8,000 CUP - 741 FPS.
6.0 Max = 16,700 CUP - 895 FPS.

So 4.4 is just fine.

have heard that really low power rounds can leave a jacket in the barrel.
Click to expand...
That is only true of the half-jacket bullets Speer used to make.

With a completely covered lead core, like the XTP, if you leave anything in the bore, it will be a complete bullet.

rc
 
The 4.8 load will probably give you what, 700-750fps outta the little LCR? Don't know how much lower you could go and still have an accurate round. As RC says....4.4 is safe.
 
Thanks for the tip about the jackets...:)

Would you guys think the 4.8 gr. load would be "mild" with the 125 gr. XTP? I mean, relatively speaking out of the LCR? I have loaded mostly 158 gr. lead bullets in the past and shot out of full size revolvers like S&W M-19 and The Dan Wesson.

I'm trying not to scare her any more than I have to and will load some wad cutters soon but I got a shot at these XTP's and thought I'd work 'em in. And Thank You for the advice!

VooDoo
 
I know its probably not what you want to hear, but if your goal is lower powered loads for your wife, then I would recommend expanding your powder library and getting something a little faster than Unique. AA#2, Bullseye, 700x, etc.

Not saying you cannot accomplish what you want with unique, but in my opinion, any of the three I listed above would be better matches.
 
Vodoun da Vinci said:
Would you guys think the 4.8 gr. load would be "mild" with the 125 gr. XTP? I mean, relatively speaking out of the LCR?
Click to expand...


My 125 JHP charge in .38 with Unique is 5.5. I shoot them outta my S&W 637 which is only 1.5 oz more than a LCR. Very comfortable shooting even to my wife and DIL. I would consider 4.8 mild.
 
"Direct" from Hornady#8 their range for the 125 gr XTP with Unique is :
5.1 gr to 5.8 gr. 5.8 being +P

800 to 950 FPS out of a 4 " barrel. Your load out of a snub will be way under

Lowering the charge below starting loads may be more comfortable shooting but for a SD round, expansion is iffy.

If they ever can be found again try to get some Speer Short Barrel bullets
 
Thanks for the advice - I'm gonna start with 4.8 gr of Unique and see what we get. As far as expansion goes, these will be target loads to begin with and more geared towards getting her more comfortable with the gun. As she gains experience and confidence I'll bump them up if I can.

I'm mostly interested in getting her to try different loads with varying velocities, bullet weights and just let her shoot it. She does not flinch and her accuracy is fine (better than mine actually...) but today she is hurting after shooting 50 rounds of the American Eagle 130 gr. FMJ's and about 15 of my 158 gr. RNFP lead reloads with 4.3 gr. of Unique behind it. The 158 gr. bullets were tack drivers even out of the LCR (shoots a ragged hole at 30' with a 4" revolver) but stingy even for me with the LCR.

Guess I'm getting old or too used to autoloaders with .32 ACP or 9mm. :what:

Thanks again for the help and input, you guys! I'll look at using other powders if I can't make the Unique work for me.

VooDoo
 
My wife has severe arthritis in her right wrist, so therefore I've loaded her 110grain Hornady XTP HP bullets using a Winchester primer (sp) and using 6.0 grains of Unique. Out of my Colt Detective Special it's chronograph is just under 1100 fps and the recoil is relatively light. She has no problem shooting that load comfortably. I believe that load at home defense distances will definitely stop the most persistent perpetrator.
 
Sure are, and those Berrys are easier to get out of the barrel. Those a a small charge of a fast powder will be very light, and safe.

If you want to get lighter than that, go with lead, which is even easier to get out of the bore and can be loaded very very light.

Then there is the powder puff 148 gr lead HBWC over 2.5 to 2.7 Grs Bullseye, or similar fast powder. These are what I used to make light practice rounds for my wife until she got used to some recoil.
 
Is she only comfortable with a revolver.? I read that you stated she shoots them naturally but has she tried a small semi.There are plenty of nice small semi autos that "bleed" off a lot more recoil than a snubby.

Sold guns for a while at the LGS and so many Women want a snubby and then come back later to trade it in on a semi auto. Just a thought
 
Yes, lots of options and when I'm done with the free XTP's I'll be exploiting that...there will be some wad cutters eventually.

Yeah, she and I have purchased and shot quite a number of guns the last few months. She has a Colt 1903 in .32 that she loves and shoots our new Beretta Px4 SC really well. The general problem with autos is the stiff recoil springs, levers, latches, releases, and then loading the mags. She's just more comfy with simple and above all, she can conceal the LCR.

She's a very competent with her Colt Officers ACP as well and it's in the list of things we are experimenting with.

VooDoo
 
when I'm done with the free XTP's I'll be exploiting that
Click to expand...
Free heck be darned!

They won't be free when you shot them all up, and have to buy some more for serious social events!!

Shoot something cheap while she is learning!!
And save the 'free' XTP's for a better use later on!!

rc
 
My wife likes a 160 wc with about 3gr of TG or BE, but this is out of a 4" 686. Feels like a 22 in that gun. We're planning on a 642 in the not-too-distant future, but I imagine that same load would be acceptable, perhaps a slight change to 2.8 or so.

I would also agree with the Berry's 125's. I like the HBFP's. Bullseye or similar again works great. You can download faster powders better. Unique seems to like mid to upper end charges for a more complete burn.

My wife could never rack the slide on semi-autos, however she recently purchased a Sig P238 (380) which she has no trouble with. Well, the 8 1/2lb trigger is a bit much. I liked it so much I just picked up a P938 (9mm). Trigger pull is a whopping 9 1/2 - 10lbs! Got some massaging to do very soon...
 
Heaviest gun with the lightest bullet going as slow as possible will give you the least recoil - maybe not the best accuracy, but that is what reloading allows to try and do
 
I'm with rcmodel, shoot the berry's and if you want to go light try using trail boss powder. I use it with my SASS loads and there is hardly any recoil. You will be the brunt of a lot of jokes about mouse fart loads but at least she can shoot comfortably for a while.
 
Those Berry's Flat Points look yummy....I'll be having some of those if the 125 gr. XTP's work out. I agree with the Unique working a lot better in midrange to hot loads. The new Unique burns much cleaner and a lot less smoke. With the hotter 158 gr loads we shot this weekend they were awesome but really hard and smacked even me out of a tiny revolver like the LCR.

Out of a S&W M19 or the Dan Wesson with 4" barrel they were actually mild. But she'll never be able to hide/carry a full size gun. I'm hoping the 125 gr bullets in a modest/medium load will be acceptable for her otherwise it's back to the hot .32 ACP. If I can't make the LCR acceptable (and I'm pretty sure I can cook up a 125 gr load she'll handle just fine) I'm gonna borrow her Mom's Colt Detective Special and have her try that. A little bigger/all steel gun, even in a snubbie, will suck up a lot of that recoil.

Then there is the .45 ACP with light loads option but that's another story.

VooDoo
 
My wife's pet pistol is a .38 Special Colt Agent ( alloy-framed Detective Special ). At 12 ounces, stuff like the PMC 130gr. Range ammo is snappy. Our current solution is a 158gr. LRN ahead of 3.2 gr. of WW231. Very mild recoil, fills the case out enough to avoid blackening from leakage, and the accuracy is good. Going to 3.5 gr. is enough to raise the recoil to a bit uncomfortable, the maximum load is at 4.1 gr. which is about factory load level. This bullet is long enough to have a decent bearing length which means it will seal the cylinder gap and not go slanted down the barrel. Recently picked up some 158gr LSWC swaged bullets which should perform about the same.

In a .38 Special I would NEVER try to work up a light load using jacketed bullets. There just isn't enough pressure in a light load in a revolver to ensure the exit of a jacketed bullet with it's high bore friction. We need to remember that once the bullet clears the cylinder gap, there is a competition going on between the gas continuing to push the bullet, and the gas leaking out of the gap. If the pressure is already low at that point, and the bore friction is too high, the leakage wins, and you have a stuck bullet. There is a reason why when you slug a barrel you use an oiled lead projectile, not a jacketed one!

IMHO jacketed bullets in a .38 Special revolver are only necessary and safe at maximum loads, otherwise stick with the projectile type that the cartridge was designed with. The reputation for dependable accuracy that is the legacy of the .38 Special revolver was made with the lubricated lead bullet, and there is no reason to change for target use.
 
So, with all things being equal (the same round) you don't think a Colt Detective Special will be enough heavier to mitigate some of the recoil and it will still be about as snappy as the LCR?

I have a lot of 158 gr lead RFFP and will end up with some plated Berry's 125 gr TFN and likely some plated 148 gr wadcutters. I'll find a load she can tolerate somewhere in there or we'll give up on the LCR for her.

That would make the little beastie my new revolver and I rather like launching 158 gr RNFP's out of it with enough Unique behind them to not be dirty or smoky. Scares the snot out of others on the range and slaps me hard enough to make me really appreciate my 9mm autoloaders. :what:

VooDoo
 
Regarding the recoil with the Detective Special, a lot of the felt effect is going to depend on the grips for the DS. With the original wood grips, the Agent was awful: the trigger guard smacked my knuckles badly enough to bruise them with the PMC Range loads. A set of Pachmayr polymer grips changed the grip shape and cushioned the recoil enough to make the gun comfortable to shoot. The DS at 21 ounces is something like 75% heavier than the LCR, so there will definitely be a noticeable reduction.
 
Edarnold said:
The DS at 21 ounces is something like 75% heavier than the LCR, so there will definitely be a noticeable reduction.
Click to expand...

Thank You....that will be an option if we can't build a load that appeals to her. We will "inherit" the Colt DS eventually but her mom keeps it as a bedside gun. I'm sure I can borrow it and buying a DS or 2" that size is not out of the question if she thinks this idea is something she wants to pursue.

VooDoo
 
If she doesn't mind .32 ACP recoil, you can definitely get a .38 down to that, even in a light gun. Lead 148s are nothing more than a little toot from a K frame, and should be quite light even in the LCR. One thing is for sure, she is getting a quick physics lesson. :)
 
I completely agree with many above. Unique and a jacketed bullet are a bad combination for reduced loads.
I echo using Berry's (or other plated) bullets and a faster powder such as Bullesye, WW231 etc.

I load mousefart/cat-sneeze loads for my wife's LCR using 125gr plated over 3gr of Trailboss. This a snub load only!
 
The Lyman 49th .38 Special starting load for the 125 gr Hornady is 4.0 gr Unique for a blistering 498 fps at 8000 CUP.

This is a published load so you should not have to worry about unpleasant effects.
 
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