38 Supers in a 357 revolver? What?

[627PCFan]

I was just watching the 357 Tribute Video posted by Hickok45 on you tube and he stated that you could shoot a 38 Super in a 357 chambered gun.....I thought you could do a 38 Short Colt, 38 Special and of course 357 but 38 Super? I figured a .355 bullet would be undersized by the bore but would go down but would the case headspace correctly?

 

[PO2Hammer]

.38 Super uses a thicker case than .357 and don't fit in some .38 spl or .357 guns.
They fit in my Freedom Arms .357 chambers (didn't fire them), but wouldn't chamber in my S&W model 10 .38 spl. I fired 1 .38 Super in my .357 T/C Contender single shot, but the case stuck real tight in the chamber after firing, so I never tried another.

They do headspace on the small rim if they fit in your chamber.

 

[MCgunner]

I can't help but ask....WHY? Is .38 super ammo cheaper than .357? Uh, no. Is .38 super more available than .357? Uh, no.

Good knowledge to know, I guess, but beyond that, of no practical use IMHO.

 

[MCgunner]

On the .355 bullet in a .357 bore, I'd always thought that would give the 9mm Blackhawk convertibles poor accuracy with the 9mm cylinder until I got one. Hell, it shoots 1.5" groups off the bench at 25 yards with 9mm 115 Winchester JHPs moving around 1100 fps. Not shabby for a .002" undersized bullet. I am impressed. You just never know until you try it.

 

[PO2Hammer]

The other problem IMO is that with the short super case the bullet might be unsupported in the .357 chamber. The front of the bullet's bearing surface hasn't reached the throat before the base of the bullet leaves the brass, so for a short distance the bullet is loose in the chamber. It could get out of alignment and strike the shoulder at the end of the chamber and gas can get by it.

I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[MCgunner]

The other problem IMO is that with the short super case the bullet might be unsupported in the .357 chamber. The front of the bullet's bearing surface hasn't reached the throat before the base of the bullet leaves the brass, so for a short distance the bullet is loose in the chamber. It could get out of alignment and strike the shoulder at the end of the chamber and gas can get by it.

I wouldn't recommend it.

Good point.

 

[mjsdwash]

if that were the case, 38 wadcutters would suffer a little to in a 357. probably not as much, but i would think a little

 

[JRH6856]

On the .355 bullet in a .357 bore, I'd always thought that would give the 9mm Blackhawk convertibles poor accuracy with the 9mm cylinder until I got one. Hell, it shoots 1.5" groups off the bench at 25 yards with 9mm 115 Winchester JHPs moving around 1100 fps. Not shabby for a .002" undersized bullet. I am impressed. You just never know until you try it.

Some .357s have really tight bores. I get the best accuracy and tightest groups from my Security Six .357 with cast lead sized .356.

 

[PO2Hammer]

if that were the case, 38 wadcutters would suffer a little to in a 357. probably not as much, but i would think a little

Just the opposite situation. .38 spl is only ~1/8" shorter than .357, and the bearing surface is quite long with a HBWC, so the bullet enters the .357 throat long before the bullet base leaves the .38 spl brass. Not unsupported at any point.

 

[BobWright]

Somebody, like a hundred years ago (not really) published an article in some old time gun magazine about how many different cartridges could be fired in a .357 Magnum revolver, including the .35 Winchester Self Loading cartridge. Naturally, many readers of the article tried the practice. And found it was true.

What was tragic was that some found that .357 Magnum cartridges could be fired in older .38 Long Colt revovlers, much to their dismay!

Bob Wright

 

[jmr40]

I can't help but ask....WHY? Is .38 super ammo cheaper than .357? Uh, no. Is .38 super more available than .357? Uh, no.

If I ever find myself out of 38 or 357 ammo for my revolver and I just happen to come across some 38 Super ammo I suppose it would be good to know it'd work in a pinch. But I agree, it's not something I'd do by design.

 

[the Real Alpo]

Seems like a bad plan.

357 case OD is .379.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd357remingtonmagnum.jpg
And there must be room in the chamber for the case to expand far enough to let go of the bullet. So what would you guess - ten thousands over? .389 hole?

38 Super case OD is .385.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd38superautomatic.jpg
Now, that 385 case WILL fit down into that 389 hole, but it's only going to be able to expand two thousands of an inch on each side, instead of the five thousands that the 357 does.

Just seem like your pressures would be quite a bit higher.

 

[BobWright]

Elmer Keith related a story of someone settling the accounts of an outlaw using a .38-40 cartridge in a .44-40 or .45 Colt chambered revolver. Wrapped the cartridge with tape to hold it sort of in place. The undersized bullet waddled down the bore and out with enough ooomph! to kill the outlaw.

Bob Wright

 

[PJSprog]

I can't help but ask....WHY?.

In that Hickok45 video cited in the OP, he mentioned that he has a bunch of .38 Super rounds left over from when he used to shoot competition. That was the premise for the comment.

I enjoyed the hell out of that video, by the way. Still my favorite cartridge / revolver combination to this day.

 

[AJD]

For the video: The bullet itself was a 38 super projectile loaded into a .357 magnum case...it was NOTan actual .38 super cartridge. FYI

 

[MCgunner]

If I ever find myself out of 38 or 357 ammo for my revolver and I just happen to come across some 38 Super ammo I suppose it would be good to know it'd work in a pinch. But I agree, it's not something I'd do by design.

Well, if I need .38 or .357, I just install the proper turret, make sure I have enough bullets cast from whichever mold I wanna use, load primers, powder, and start cranking 'em out. I haven't bought a box of .38 or .357 loaded ammo in 35 years. But, to each their own.

 

[MCgunner]

For the video: The bullet itself was a 38 super projectile loaded into a .357 magnum case...it was NOTan actual .38 super cartridge. FYI

Well, of course THAT would work. I shoot 9mm in my .357 revolver all the time....with the 9mm cylinder installed. I generally shoot lead bullets sized to .357 in my 9mm guns, though, kinda the opposite situation. It's a 358-105 Lee mold and works very well in 9x19, even in my .380.

One thing, I'd prefer, if I were loading a .355" jacketed bullet in .357 brass, to have a crimp groove.

 

[PO2Hammer]

One thing, I'd prefer, if I were loading a .355" jacketed bullet in .357 brass, to have a crimp groove.

With the long noses on the typical 9mm FMJ, they end up being too long for the cylinders if loaded normally in .357 brass. Seat them deep enough so you can crimp on the nose. It prevents bullet pull and reduces OAL. I loaded a lot of .355" & .356" bullets in .357 brass during the shortage of '08. It worked very well.

 

[RainDodger]

Why do people keep tempting fate by shooting some caliber that's not stamped on the barrel? Rhetorical question. I simply don't see the point.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Then I better not mention how I used to shoot .40 S&W out of my stock 10mm Glock. OOPS!
Some of us like to color outside the lines.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Then I better not mention how I used to shoot .40 S&W out of my stock 10mm Glock. OOPS!
Some of us like to color outside the lines.

And why not? It's just 10mm Short/10mm Special. Or, if you can't take the heat... turn the stove down.

I guess Hicock didn't intend to get anyone's undies in a bunch but rather point out the potential connections even if impractical.

Sorta like making the tenuous connection of all "Small Block Chevies" to the original 265 of 1955.

I find it curiously entertaining in the same vein of folk hypothesizing on the various .30s which may be fired from say, a 30-06 with adaptors.

Todd.

 

[Jim K]

When I was playing around with penetration questions, I fired a fair number of 9mm FMJ bullets in a .357, using .357 cases. Accuracy was fine.

As to .38 Super in a .38/.357 chamber, I rather doubt that it can be done as a common practice. I tried a couple of brands of .38 Super and .38 ACP in a variety of S&W and Colt revolvers and could not get the auto pistol cartridges to enter the revolver chambers. It might work with some rounds (tolerances again), but it certainly is not something to depend on, even in an emergency.

But the .38 Super/ACP would fit almost all of the .38 S&W revolvers I tried it in. And I have no doubt that firing .38 Super in some of those guns would be damaging to the gun and possibly the shooter. The fact that .38 ACP and .38 S&W are almost the same diameter is not surprising, since Browning used the .38 S&W as the basis for his experimental cartridges when he was working on his first pistol designs.

Jim

 

[MCgunner]

For those asking "why", I guess one does what one must do to shoot when ammo is not available at Walmart. Too bad there's no alternative for .22 rimfire. It's the only round I shoot that I don't handload. I've heard of the desperate Nagant owner shooting .32 S&W long out of desperation, cracked cases and all. Personally, I ain't in to Nagant revolvers.