.380 ACP the Red Haired Stepchild?

[trackskippy]

I quit carrying things like my Seecamps and LCPs when I realized I could carry my 26 in the same places, in the same type holsters. In some cases, I can carry something the size of a 19 in the same holster, and in the same place.

I can also access the gun quicker and easier from all positions too, even while seated, something pocket carry doesn't allow. Concealment is also better than pocket carry.

Things like the small 380's, 32's, 22's, are best left for third line, last ditch backups, and contrary to what many seem to think, are certainly not primary material. You only limit yourself to one, because you choose to.

 

[JDeere]

Fine for a BU pistol but that's all imo. There is no reason not to carry at least 9MM these days with the variety of 9s available. I get it if one truly has wrist issues and recoil is an issue. What I don't get is full grown and fully capable young guys at the range complaining about recoil from a 9mm or better...

 

[Ks5shooter]

Pocket option,better than nothing in summer MHO.Carried one at a funeral yesterday here,it was very warm.

 

[trackskippy]

Glock 19





The Smart Carry's allows you to comfortably carry more realistic guns, and in pretty much any situation. They dont require a belt or any other cover garment other than your pants or shorts, and are much faster and easier to access, and from most any position, than pocket carry too.

I dont normally carry a 19 in one, but I do carry a 26 in one, and have done so in a very active and physical (NPE) job for 10-12 hours a day.

 

[red rick]

I don’t have any use for one when they make 9mm’s the size and capacity as the 365 . My brother bought a small Ruger .380 for his wife to carry about 10 years ago and bought it over to shoot . I don’t know what model it was . It’s felt recoil was more than anything that had felt besides my M&P 340 .

 

[SterlingBullet]

Here in Florida, shorts and a T-shirt are worn almost year-round. Many of our customers never wear belts with shorts, there is simply a draw-string at the waist, limiting the weight of a carry weapon without their shorts falling down. I’m sure somebody will chime in here saying that “I carry big” in Florida; I’m just relaying my experience selling firearms at a LGS for a number of years and customer requests, comments and buying trends.

For those that want larger caliber firearms, the most popular options are in the following order: P365, Hellcat, Glock 43 and the DB9. There are some that carry a Glock 26 or similar size. There are very few carriers of full-size guns, some skinny guys can hide a 1911 or Glock 19. Although, many will purchase holsters for full-size guns, the EDC is a small 380.

The majority carry micro 380s because of the lightweight clothing and constant heat in Florida. In addition, 99% wear one layer of shirt, which means a carried firearm inside-the-waist is always against the skin unless the holster has a full length leather guard. There are a sizable number of complaints about chafing. You also need to consider rust and corrosion of the firearm from body sweat, which is constant year-round, and and can daily soak clothing for some. We sell a lot of sticky holsters for small caliber guns for pocket carry.

Personally, I only wear belted shorts, but with my ample girth, a small outside-the-waist micro 380 works best, adding less weight to all of the other items I carry daily. Cargo shorts do allow pocket carry for me, but also are much hotter to wear than lightweight polyester golf shorts.

 

[Speedo66]

It wasn’t that long ago that no self respecting gun magazine writer would say anything less than a :45 was suitable for self defense.

Then came the wonder 9’s, and the FBI adapted them along with the military, so then they were okay.

Seems to me until the LCP’s became popular and everyone started carrying them, that a .380 was now considered adequate, even though marginally,

My point is, the more people start carrying a certain round, the more popular opinion shifts in its favor to what is considered adequate. Very happy with my LCP, since for everyday carry, it would be that or nothing.

.

 

[jdc1244]

here on the forum.

That’s pretty much your answer.

 

[Rexster]

A .380 ACP can, documentably, break a human femur. So, I see it as probably adequate for close-range, face-to-face self defense. If that is the scenario presented to a defender, the .380 is capable, so, I see it as essentially equivalent to what a small-frame 38 snub-gun can do, but with a bit more ammo capacity. Some number of attacks, however, involve multiple actors, some of whom may be vehicle-mobile. Or, I may defend myself, and, thanks to modern mobile communication devices, my attackers “cavalry” may well arrive before “my cavalry.” A somewhat larger pistol, firing a more powerful cartridge, will provide me with more options, if things start getting more complicated. If a handgun’s grip reaches all the way to the “heel bone” area of my hand, I will shoot it more accurately, regardless of the cartridge it fires. Not many .380 pistols are that large.

I have skinny fingers, so, can achieve a three-finger grip on some amazingly small pistols. My fingers and thumbs are not Size Large. My hands, however, are Size Large. The short grip of some small pistols can get lost, in the palm area of my weapon hand, especially if the grip is also narrow. I am, little by little, working on vetting a Glock G42. Someday, I may work it into my defensive ensemble. Notably, however, the Ruger SP101 revolver remains my usual minimum defensive carry weapon, on a day-to-day basis. I can shoot an SP101 more accurately than most small autos, because the grip extends all the way to the “heel bone” area of my hand, and I can get a good three-finger grip, enabling my little finger to contribute significantly to the strength of my gripping force. I have higher confidence that I can maintain control of an SP101, if a struggle for my life occurs at touching distance, than if holding a compact/sub-compact auto-pistol.

 

[JTHunter]

Back in the mid-70s, the first handgun I purchased was an Astra Constable in .380. It is an all-steel gun with no adjustable sights and a 7 + 1 capacity. At this time, I don't know what the effectiveness of modern ammo but I reload with a load of Winchester 231 just 0.1 grain below max. Being all steel, it has sufficient weight so that "flip" is minimal, even with my reloads. Sights are fixed and are only usable in slow, aimed fire, but the gun fits comfortably in my med. to large hands. The barrel is also part of the frame and non-removable (as far as I know). It was the only centerfire (CF) handgun I had until 11 years ago and I still have it.
I do NOT carry as IL-ANNOY's fees are despicable and I already have to give them too much.
While a 90-95 gr. HP might not penetrate that deeply when compared to either a 9mm or .38 Special, it will still get deep enough to puncture the heart or other internal organs. The 100 gr. FMJs (in both RN & FP) run the chance of over-penetration, they are also more likely to break bones than the HPs.
As has been already noted, with less flip it is easier to get back on or stay on target.

 

[cfullgraf]

I like a 380 ACP pistol but you have to know its limitations.

I carried a Mustang for 20 some years from the mid-1980's to the mid-2000;s. Its small size was easy to conceal and I was quite proficient with the gun. Admittedly, magazine capacity was limited but an extra magazine was easy to carry. I never felt under-gunned.

I have a Beretta M84, nice pistol but too large and one might as well carry a 9x19. I recently acquired a Beretta M85 (single stack M84) but it is still large. My M84 will feed about any bullet I send to it. I played with some 110 JHP 38 caliber HP bullets once and the M84 fired them without issue. It was just the performance was not there with the heavy bullet so I abandoned the experiment.

I like the Walther PPK concept, but the pistol is too heavy and the blow back action is not as pleasant to shoot as a 380 with a locked breech. I do like the DA/SA trigger though.

I have a Kel-Tec P3-AT. The small size is nice for concealment but it is pretty much what is considered a 'belly gun" in my opinion. It is not very useful for longer ranges than "up close and personnel". The Kel Tec P32 ia much more controllable but the lower power 32 ACP round must be considered.

My original Mustang has been retired. I do have a more recent production version of the Mustang but a Kimber Micro serves the purposes of the original Mustang. I do have a Kimber Micro 9 but I have not warmed to it much yet. The Micro 9 is not much bigger than the Micro and has a more powerful cartridge.

When I do not need deep concealment, an H&K P30SK-V3 is my firearm of choice.

Finally, with my 380 ACP handguns, I generally shoot FMJ ammunition. I've found expansion of hollow point bullets is unreliable, FMJ's give better penetration and more reliable operation. Case in point, my S&W 380 ACP PPK hates anything except FMJ ammunition.

Bottom line, a 380 ACP isn't any 44 Magnum, but a hit with a 380 ACP trumps a miss with anything else.

 

[jdc1244]

9mm Browning Court, the Euro-round, a ‘gentleman’s cartridge’ – designed for self-defense at close range with a small, concealable pistol; and in this role it works well.

 

[Paul7]

back in the day i did a lot of stress testing with new shooters in the military...most couldnt hit anything under stress. and the more the recoil the worse the results were.
people can train on a shooting range all day but when it's life or death thats a whole other game.

Exactly, I saw an article in a gun rag where even experienced gun guy writers were 50% less accurate with a micro 9 than with a .380. For me, the Glock 42 is perfect, accurate and comfortable to shoot, and a true pocket carry gun. And according to this, there ain't any real world difference between .380 and 9mm in SD situations:

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

So if that's true, and a .380 will be more likely to make hits on target due to being more shootable, and smaller to carry, why do I want to use a 9mm? BTW, I am in FL so no heavy clothing to shoot through, and I'm not expecting to have to shoot through a car window as cops might. In SD, as in hunting, I got over magnumitis a long time ago.

 

[Paul7]

I don’t have any use for one when they make 9mm’s the size and capacity as the 365 . My brother bought a small Ruger .380 for his wife to carry about 10 years ago and bought it over to shoot . I don’t know what model it was . It’s felt recoil was more than anything that had felt besides my M&P 340 .

Probably a Ruger LCP .380. On top of being very uncomfortable to shoot and not accurate, mine was such junk even Ruger gave up on mine and sent me a refund. For me the G42 suits me well.

 

[amd6547]

I’m willing to accept the limitations of the 380acp due to the fact that I love my Beretta 84F. Sure, I could just as easily carry my G26, another pistol I like a lot. But, there’s just something about that 84F. I load it with Underwood +P XTP, but I’d be fine with a good euro spec fmj.

 

[trackskippy]

I had both 42's and 43's, and never noticed that they shot any differently or that there was really any difference in recoil between them. My only real beef with either of them was, they were a tad too skinny and tended to move around in your hand under recoil, especially when shooting quickly. Stippling helped there a lot, as it does with most things, but the 26 just feels a lot better, and in all respects.

back in the day i did a lot of stress testing with new shooters in the military...most couldnt hit anything under stress. and the more the recoil the worse the results were.
people can train on a shooting range all day but when it's life or death thats a whole other game.

As far as this goes, you generally get out of things what you put in. If whats being referred to here are shooters who arent beginners, then something is wrong with their training.

The whole point of putting in constant time and effort at the range in practice is to condition your brain to be able to shoot, on demand, without having to think about the act of shooting, and can focus on the problem at hand. If youre still at the level that you have to consciously think about shooting, while youre shooting, youre not yet there.

At some point, reality has to come into this too (who'd have thunk, right ). Will a 380 do the job? Sure, if YOU dont let it down and can make it work, across the board. Can you do it with the gun you choose, quickly and without thought? Thats more the question than what the caliber is.

People get all wrapped up in the caliber thing, yet, more often than not, the caliber wouldn't matter, because they cant realistically make things work, when called to on demand, with whatever it is they have. Reality sucks, you get what you get, when you get it, and not what you think is fair and acceptable to what you choose to carry.

If you can run a simple and basic course of fire with what you choose to carry and can come out with a reasonably good score, youre on your way. If you cant, then you really need to reevaluate things here. There are other innocent lives at risk here, besides your own.

And for those who cry and complain that its too hot and you dont wear enough clothes and cant possibly hide anything other than a third like back up, "comfortably", you need to put some time and work into figuring things out. With all the different holsters and carriers available to us today, if you cant find something and make it work with a more realistic gun, you havent tried very hard at all.

Ive been doing it on a daily basis since the mid 70's, when there wasnt much of a choice in holsters, and had no troubles doing so, and in an area with summers in the mid 90's plus, and high humidity, and working and playing every day in a very physical manner doing so, to boot. I lived and worked outside, year round, and base things on that, and not living in a controlled environment.

Still doing it every day now too....

 

[roscoe]

I had both 42's and 43's, and never noticed that they shot any differently or that there was really any difference in recoil between them. My only real beef with either of them was, they were a tad too skinny and tended to move around in your hand under recoil, especially when shooting quickly. Stippling helped there a lot, as it does with most things, but the 26 just feels a lot better, and in all respects.


As far as this goes, you generally get out of things what you put in. If whats being referred to here are shooters who arent beginners, then something is wrong with their training.

The whole point of putting in constant time and effort at the range in practice is to condition your brain to be able to shoot, on demand, without having to think about the act of shooting, and can focus on the problem at hand. If youre still at the level that you have to consciously think about shooting, while youre shooting, youre not yet there.

At some point, reality has to come into this too (who'd have thunk, right ). Will a 380 do the job? Sure, if YOU dont let it down and can make it work, across the board. Can you do it with the gun you choose, quickly and without thought? Thats more the question than what the caliber is.

People get all wrapped up in the caliber thing, yet, more often than not, the caliber wouldn't matter, because they cant realistically make things work, when called to on demand, with whatever it is they have. Reality sucks, you get what you get, when you get it, and not what you think is fair and acceptable to what you choose to carry.

If you can run a simple and basic course of fire with what you choose to carry and can come out with a reasonably good score, youre on your way. If you cant, then you really need to reevaluate things here. There are other innocent lives at risk here, besides your own.

And for those who cry and complain that its too hot and you dont wear enough clothes and cant possibly hide anything other than a third like back up, "comfortably", you need to put some time and work into figuring things out. With all the different holsters and carriers available to us today, if you cant find something and make it work with a more realistic gun, you havent tried very hard at all.

Ive been doing it on a daily basis since the mid 70's, when there wasnt much of a choice in holsters, and had no troubles doing so, and in an area with summers in the mid 90's plus, and high humidity, and working and playing every day in a very physical manner doing so, to boot. I lived and worked outside, year round, and base things on that, and not living in a controlled environment.

Still doing it every day now too....

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Whoah - you do you of course, but for me that is WAY too much stuff in the belt and sticking into the abdomen (and I tend towards skinny). Since I am a normal civilian, the firearm would only be for risks inside 25 feet or so, and I can put 7 hardcast .380 rounds into a torso at that range easily. Note that because my little LCP sits in my front jeans pocket, just by putting my hands into my pockets I am essentially at low-ready. No pulling t-shirt aside with my off-hand, etc.

In circumstances when I deem the risk to be greater I do carry a 9mm OWB at 4:30 but it is much like any any risk-related preventative behaviors - it matches my expected risk in terms of probability and potential damage. I don't wear a crash helmet, Leatt brace, and fireproof racing suit when driving to the grocery store - the seatbelt and airbag seems enough.

 

[LimaCharlie]

I consider 9mm or 38 special and lesser calibers to be "get off of me" calibers. I sometimes carry a LW Seecamp 380 as a backup pocket gun. My primary carry guns include 357 magnum, 45 ACP, and 10mm calibers.

 

[Antihero]

Probably a Ruger LCP .380. On top of being very uncomfortable to shoot and not accurate, mine was such junk even Ruger gave up on mine and sent me a refund. For me the G42 suits me well.

Oh yeah, I'd rather fire my 329pd than the p3at.

It's like holding on to an exploding credit card

 

[trackskippy]

Whoah - you do you of course, but for me that is WAY too much stuff in the belt and sticking into the abdomen (and I tend towards skinny). Since I am a normal civilian, the firearm would only be for risks inside 25 feet or so, and I can put 7 hardcast .380 rounds into a torso at that range easily. Note that because my little LCP sits in my front jeans pocket, just by putting my hands into my pockets I am essentially at low-ready. No pulling t-shirt aside with my off-hand, etc.

In circumstances when I deem the risk to be greater I do carry a 9mm OWB at 4:30 but it is much like any any risk-related preventative behaviors - it matches my expected risk in terms of probability and potential damage. I don't wear a crash helmet, Leatt brace, and fireproof racing suit when driving to the grocery store - the seatbelt and airbag seems enough.

By all means, do what you think best. Should things go south, we all get to deal with whatever we get, with whatever we got on us, and we dont get to choose the time or place. The problem will be what it is and wherever it is at the moment, and can happen anywhere, even in the best of places.

I always looked at it as being prepared for the worst I might get, not the easiest Im told to expect from the stats quoting crowd. Everything you see there in my belt is actually very comfortable and easily done, and that's for all day long, from the time Im up until bed time carry, not just taking a pic. I have the same thing on right now as I type.

I know you boys who pocket carry like to think youll always have your hand on the gun in your pocket, but thats not at all realistic. And its not as non-descript as you like to think either, at least not to anyone paying attention. And when you do it, it also puts you in a compromising and bad spot, if your opponent is close.

Id be willing to bet, I can move, clear, and shoot a burst with that 17 faster and more accurately than most pocket carriers with their hand on the gun at the start. Hand out of the pocket and you have no chance at all.

If you arent regularly practicing with that pocket gun (or whatever you choose to carry), from how you intend to deploy it, I think youre likely going to be very unpleasantly surprised when you have to do it for the first time for real, especially under any kind of stress. Ive never seen anyone practicing that way with them at any of the ranges Ive been to and shot at. Most places wont let you do it at all anyway. So how are you getting your live ammo practice in with them? When was the last time you shot with it that way?

As Ive said before, the 380 will certainly work, as long as YOU can actually make it work, and those little guns, in those calibers, take a LOT of hard work, to get to be that good and be able to do things on demand. Hell, the full size guns take a lot of hard work.

Hey, if its really all that you can carry, then it is what it is, and you just have to make do with limiting yourself and deal with it. All Im saying is, except in maybe a few cases, you dont have to limit yourself to those little guns, unless of course thats what you want to do. And if you do, you really need to be honest with yourself as to your actual skills with whatever it is. And that really that goes for anything you might carry, not just them.

 

[generic sportsshooter]

View attachment 1145797

wow, that looks really uncomfortable.
i hope that at some point you guys all get the right to open carry whatever handgun/rifle/cannon/rocketlauncher you want and americans don't have to put their guns in their underwear/pockets/armpits/ankles.
where and when did it go wrong?

 

[trackskippy]

wow, that looks really uncomfortable.
i hope that at some point you guys all get the right to open carry whatever handgun/rifle/cannon/rocketlauncher you want and americans don't have to put their guns in their underwear/pockets/armpits/ankles.
where and when did it go wrong?

We have open carry here, with a couple of silly restrictions, depending on where you are in the state, and I still wouldnt do it if you paid me too. Why give up a very important option of concealing the gun? Not to mention, being able to carry in places you're told you cant.

Both the Smart Carry and AIWB type carry are very comfortable and about the best way to go for good concealment and actually being able to carry and quickly and easily deploy a realistic gun from pretty much any position.

As with most things, the complaints you often hear, are usually from people with no experience with the things they tell you wont work. Even in this thread, I keep hearing about things that Im not supposed to be able to do, what Ive done on a daily basis for most of my adult life, and done it easily.

Youll never know what works or what doesnt, if you dont keep up and continue to learn and try new things. In 50 or so odd years Ive been wearing a gun now, the difference in what was available when I started, to whats available now, is mind-blowing, and its been a constant learning experience the whole time. And as I said before, if you cant figure out a way to carry and conceal a realistic gun, comfortably, in this day and age, youre not trying very hard.

But, of course, you have to want to do it, which it seems a lot of people dont want to do. And thats fine, just say that and leave it at that. Just because you cant, or dont want to, isnt helping those who do.

"Cant" is such a negative word, and its also self-prophetical as well. If dont actually put in the effort to try and make it work, and you convince yourself it cant be done, youll always prove yourself right. If you really "want" to do something, you usually will figure out a way to get it done.

 

[jar]

I would not carry in a place where I was told I could not carry. I am not just another criminal.

 

[trackskippy]

All depends on your definition of "criminal".

 

[CaptHank]

I carry a Sig P232, 95% of the time. It’s also my night stand piece.