380 auto Vs 9 mm...you really give up a lot in power...

[saturno_v]

I know that the bullet diameter is the same, but just reading the ballistic tables of the most common ammo manufacturer on average the 9 mm is 70-80% more powerful with a significantly heavier bullet....I think it is a lot to give up in performance if you take the 380 auto route.....I thought the differences were smaller...wow that was an eye opener....

Any comments or opinion???

 

[scurtis_34471]

That is why I will not carry .380 in anything bigger than a Ruger LCP or Kel Tec P3AT. The only reason to carry .380 is when you simply cannot carry anything else.

I recently traded my Bersa .380 for a Kahr P9 Covert 9mm and have no regrets about doing so.

 

[Lonestar49]

...

Also, if one uses one as a bug gun, 380acp ball ammo IF 95gr, is better apt to penetrate far better than the same in JHP 95gr..

If one has a choice of the many sub compact 9mm's out there, that would be the better choice IMO..

Kinda like my SA EMP 1911 SAO 9+1, small, thin, and "reliable and accurate" using either 124gr or 135gr JHP.


Ls

 

[MCgunner]

9x19 is MUCH more cartridge than .380. .380 will work with good bullet placement, but I'm not real joyful if I have to carry mine in lieu of my P11. I worry about penetration. The 9x19 +P is putting up twice the energy with more bullet weight. I have confidence in its expansion and penetration capabilities.

 

[The Tourist]

I'm not sure you do in the real world scenarios.

For example, most fights are within feet of the aggressor.

If you fire a modern 9mmx19, and perforate the attacker, how much of an energy dump is truly realized?

However, if I pull out my CZ 83, triple-tap three Gold Dots into his chest, and they all mushroom as advertised releasing all of the potential energy, aren't I better off?

 

[DawgFvr]

Don't kidd yourself...you are always better off with the superior 9mm round.

 

[saturno_v]

I'm not a ballistic expert but i think that if the attacker is a musclular build type with winter heavy clothing and possibly drunk/drugged up to top it off, I would rather have the more power of the 9 mm than the 380....just my thought....

a 147 gr HP 9 mm slug shoudl be better than a a slower .380 95 gr. slug...

 

[MICHAEL T]

Attention all people killed by 380 please stand up so can be rekilled by 9mm.
380 at 10' is just as deadly as any 9mm Its shot placement . 45 auto beats both So lets all cary 45's

 

[DougDubya]

A full .380 ready to fire is faster than reloading your 9mm.

Just a thought.

 

[McCall911]

I've carried both and have never felt undergunned, as long as I do my part.

 

[outerlimit]

I've been hard pressed to find a time when I could not at least pocket carry a PM9. So I've never really had any use for the .380 cartridge. I do like the looks of the new Kahr .380 though.

 

[tblt]

I feel underguned when I carry my taurus 38 now I want a sp101 in 357 mag.
What I really want is a gun I can shoot as good as my P95 but in a smaller frame.

 

[benderx4]

I guess I shouldn't mention that I carry a 32acp for my BUG, should I? Hell, I figure if it was good enough to start WWII and good enough for Hitler to commit suicide with, it's good enough for me!

 

[Lonestar49]

Huh, DD?

A full .380 ready to fire is faster than reloading your 9mm.

Just a thought.

...

Not quite sure what ya mean here. But having, both, a SIG P232 SL 7+1 380 vs my SA EMP SAO 1911 9+1, I can tell you that in NO way is the 380 faster, especially with point and shoot, accuracy. But even more to your point, the EMP's side-release mag-release button allowing the mags to pop out freely and a reserve mag inserted straight up and in (effortlessly and fast) and back-on-target is WAY faster than the SIG 380's Euro bottom thumb mag release, which you have to "pull the mag out" and then angle, at first, the reserve mag in before it will, then, go straight up and in is Very time-comsuming (with pressure-value added, even more).

And I wouldn't want to deal with a jam, time-wise, with the SIG, especially if one needs to release the mag pressure (which was 90%) of the time IF and when it would jam, VERY time-consuming. And, especially, being such a dirty gun with the blow-back-action that demanded pure cleaning and fresh oil, per 230 rounds Max, with my gun, or you could count, 1 jam, per mag, from then on.. Where as, with the SA EMP 9mm, she can go 500 rounds, easy, before even considering a complete disassembly and cleaning..

That's as straight from the horses mouth (mine) comparing both guns to each other in all areas of speed, reliability, round counts, accuracy, and forgiveness.

Like I said, IF one can get a SC 9mm over a 380acp, that is the far better choice, and that would include, JHP, punch.. As we all agree on shot-placement being paramount with "any gun" and its effect on stopping the BG..


Ls

Ps.. anyone interested in a pristine SIG 232 SL 380, just PM me..

 

[The Tourist]

My argument is simply that bigger might not always be better.

For example, any of us know that quality differs from one cartridge company to the next. Some is sooty, sub-parr ammo, heck, some doesn't fire at all.

So when I load/choose my EDC firearm, obviously I select clean, modern, fresh ammo that I have thoroughly tested in a proven handgun.

Not only does this ensure about as much knock-down power as I'm probably going to get, but it enhances any chance I have for shot placement.

Given that idea--which I follow--I have no concerns at all about a .380 ACP against any handgun for self-defense.

Now, I am also a great fan of 1911s. The quick response might be that a bullet weighing more than twice that of a .380, and with a width of .452 has just got to be better. For that part of this debate, we could argue citing the 1984 FBI Miami shooting, where just about every caliber was used.

I want to be able to deliver a functioning bullet, in a reliable handgun, with reasonable accuracy. That's the best scenario.

I'm not sure--with those parameters--that caliber matters much. It's the blend of the best technology and a practiced shooter.

 

[Lonestar49]

Good ammo is KEY

...

But same size, but bigger caliber, JHP's, and more rounds per mag is the best choice, with the right, new, good ammo, being used.


Ls

For example:

SA EMP 9+1 9mm vs SIG P232 SL 7+1 380



I'm not trying to sell anyone on the EMP, they cost a lot, but there are many great choices of small 9mm's that hold more rounds than most 380's 7+1 load-outs.

 

[birdbustr]

I just looked it up and the Energy of most .380 rounds at muzzle are averaging about 200ft/lbs. The 9mm Luger rounds are averaging 325ft/lbs of energy. A shot through a BG's head or heart is most likely going to be fatal regardless of caliber, but any other hit and that 62.5% more energy that the 9mm gives would sure help to stop an aggressor. Here's the source I used. http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/ballistic-tables/

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

I just ordered a LCP for when I can't carry a larger gun, which is much of the time during the week. Ideally I would like a larger caliber, but the .380 is the largest gun I can reasonably carry in my dress pants.

But as far as this discussion goes, if someone feels undergunned with a .380, how much more protected do they feel with a 9mm? Why don't they carry .45s?

 

[saturno_v]

Attention all people killed by 380 please stand up so can be rekilled by 9mm.
380 at 10' is just as deadly as any 9mm Its shot placement . 45 auto beats both So lets all cary 45's

I guess I shouldn't mention that I carry a 32acp for my BUG, should I? Hell, I figure if it was good enough to start WWII and good enough for Hitler to commit suicide with, it's good enough for me!

Guys....

Grizzly bears have been killed with 22 Long Rifle....so what's your point???

Between 2 quality and reliable handguns that I can both COMFORTABLY (that's the key in my case) carry in my pocket and I can shoot very well and with the same magazine capacity, I would go with the 9 mm over the 380....why should I limit myself with the way less powerful round other things being equal???

the 45 is a moot point, I never seen a really pocketable one, and if it exists would be very hard to shoot and probably would have only 3 or 4 round capacity....so no comparison here.

 

[saturno_v]

I just ordered a LCP for when I can't carry a larger gun, which is much of the time during the week. Ideally I would like a larger caliber, but the .380 is the largest gun I can reasonably carry in my dress pants.

But as far as this discussion goes, if someone feels undergunned with a .380, how much more protected do they feel with a 9mm? Why don't they carry .45s?

The Kel-Tec PF-9 is extremely comfortable in a dress pocket (I tested myself) and it offers the same magazine capacity than other pocketable .380s.....if the PF-9 would be extremely reliable as well (I don't know about that I do not have experience with the gun) why limit yourself with a round significantly less powerful?? (we are talking about 70-80% difference here, not few ft/lbs...)

I do not think they make 45s that you can put in your dress pocket comfortably and with 7 rounds capacity...

 

[MCgunner]

I'm not sure you do in the real world scenarios.

For example, most fights are within feet of the aggressor.

If you fire a modern 9mmx19, and perforate the attacker, how much of an energy dump is truly realized?

However, if I pull out my CZ 83, triple-tap three Gold Dots into his chest, and they all mushroom as advertised releasing all of the potential energy, aren't I better off?

At 410 ft lbs with the 9x19 +P out of my P11, let alone the 190 or so my .380 has, pressure wave (energy transfer) isn't the deal. I wanna make two holes, in and out, to bleed out of and the bigger the exit wound the better. That 9x19 Hornady 115XTP is movin' at 1263 fps. It's gonna get expansion AND penetration. A 90 grain Hornady XTP at under 1000 fps ain't near as good and might not exit a guy with a little beef on him.

I start to think energy transfer in revolvers with numbers like .357 and followed by the word "Magnum" and even then in 3" or longer barrels. Anything less, I'm more worried about putting holes in flesh.

 

[mavracer]

Not quite sure what ya mean here. But having, both, a SIG P232 SL 7+1 380 vs my SA EMP SAO 1911 9+1, I can tell you that in NO way is the 380 faster, especially with point and shoot, accuracy.

he means when your EMP is dry it'll be faster to draw your loaded 232 than reload your EMP.

 

[Disaster]

"I just looked it up and the Energy of most .380 rounds at muzzle are averaging about 200ft/lbs. The 9mm Luger rounds are averaging 325ft/lbs of energy. A shot through a BG's head or heart is most likely going to be fatal regardless of caliber, but any other hit and that 62.5% more energy that the 9mm gives would sure help to stop an aggressor. Here's the source I used. http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballis...listic-tables/"

Of course a 9mm can always have more power than a .380 but Buffalo Bore does considerably better than most, at 1175 fps and 276 ft. lbs.

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#380

 

[jocko]

give me the 9mm

I carried a 380 for a couple of years, it was better than nothing but once I found a good 9mm that road in my front pocket the 380's dissapeared from my inventory. Have since purchsed for my son a lcp 380 and we both love it, guess because it goes bang all the time. I will be buying the new kahr P380 as soon as it comes out also, Have no real reason to do that, other than I think this is one hell of a great looking and made handgun and if it follows the footsteps of my kahr pm9, It will be a winner, but still will not replace my 9mm PM9 for 24/7 carry. I do love that extra power. BUT saying all that, the 380 is nothing to sneeze at either.

 

[passintime]

Why don't we all compromise and carry the 9x18 Makarov instead


I don't feel undergunned when I am carrying mine (summer carry).