.380 vs. 9mm Makarov

[WardenWolf]

Really? Let's see here, military pistol proven on the fields of battle or an ultra compact pocket pistol for the civilian crowd. Yeah, whatever you say bud.

Troll post!

You're comparing a commercial product that's already had at least one recall to tried and true military designs. The Makarov is still in service in a variety of nations (there's a picture of Putin with one at a shooting range), and the Polish P-64 was in use from the 1970s to 1993 until being fully replaced by the P-83, itself a 9x18 pistol. You're comparing a gun that has plastic parts to one that's solid steel. You're comparing a complex pistol to one that completely field strips in seconds. All 9x18 pistols have good safeties and decockers, able to operate in both single action and double action.

All the 9x18 pistols are this way. They're all based on the same basic concept, despite major differences in their trigger mechanisms. They all have features you'll only see on high-end Western handguns, all much larger than .380 ACP. Fact is, there is a dramatic lack of quality in most .380 ACP handguns. They are very hit and miss, mostly miss. The best .380's, in fact, are the .380 versions of Makarov-based guns, with the only difference being the barrel. I'm not going to trust my life to products I KNOW have problems. I'm going with what thousands, if not millions, of military and police have entrusted their lives to for many years.

 

[Fastcast]

In all fairness, it was designed to use steel cased stuff. It damn well better work with it.

Sure, but it can also digest brass all day too.

On the LCP, that's why I said I didn't really count the one FTE with the cheap steel but for Ruger to act like using brass cased (C.I.P & SAAMI) Prvi is what most likely made my LCP choke is ludicrous. In all fairness to Ruger, they did say if it continues to give me trouble, they'll send me a return label.

The last 100 rounds of RWS ran flawless so maybe it just needed shot in.

 

[Girodin]

I would consider the CZ-82 a much better fighting pistol than many of these mini 9x19s carrying 7 rounds.....I've shot several of those and the 82. I'd bet my life on winning a fight with the 82!....YMMV

I have a CZ and a few glocks. The CZ is practically the same size as a G19. I'd rather have a G19. Comparing a CZ82 to mini nine makes much less sense than comparing it to a 9mm that is roughly the same size, its sitting next to my 26 in front of me right now and is bigger than the 26 with Pierce extension. I'm not sure that the CZ would make a better carry gun than a Kahr for what its worth. I have nothing bad to say about the CZ, and for the money think it is going to be hard to beat. However, I'd prefer 9mm of the same size and weight that carries 12-17 rounds of 9mm.

 

[gofastman]

I'm ok with the .380, but if i could find a TCP/LCP/P3AT in 9x18 i would jump on it!

 

[Fastcast]

Not really into the goofy ergos of the Glock or the wide, boxy slides. Everyone talks about grip thickness but the squared slides don't do it for me, if I go IWB....YMMV

 

[harmon rabb]

I have a CZ and a few glocks. The CZ is practically the same size as a G19. I'd rather have a G19.

That depends on how well you can shoot a G19. I'm a much, much better shot with my cz-82 (or 1911 for that matter) than with any glock. For that reason, I personally would rather carry a cz-82 than a G19, even though you give up ballistics and firepower in making that choice.

 

[Snowdog]

I like the 9x18, but I cannot for the life of me understand why some try to compare it favorably to the 9x19.

Here's the scoop (everyone's welcome to fact-check):

* There's a nominal 2.25% difference in diameter between the 9x18 (.363) and 9x19 (.355).

* There's a significant difference in energy between the two with the 9x19 possessing approximately 50% greater energy than the 9x18.

* There's a significant 30% difference in bullet weight between typical Eastern Bloc 9x18 military surplus 9x18 (94/95gr) and typical NATO surplus 9x19 (124gr). There's the less common/specialty 9x18 available (up to 115gr) with heavier bullets, as well as less common/specialty 9x19 also available (up to 158gr).

* The typical 9x19 possess a velocity advantage of 20% (conservatively, usually greater) over the typical 9x18, despite the heavier projectile of the 9x19.

* The 9x19 possess a higher operating pressure of approximately 52% greater than pressures typical of the 9x18.

* The locked breach operation recommended for higher-pressure 9x19 cartridge provide a platform that's generally accepted to impart less felt recoil than the blowback operated pistols ideal for the lower pressure 9x18. The difference in recoil characteristics between locked-breach and blowback operated pistols often leads to the erroneous belief by some of the 9x18 being as powerful if not more so, than the 9x19 due to the "sharper" felt recoil typical of blowbacks.

* The 9x19 can do any thing the 9x18 can do in terms of performance

* The same cannot be said for the 9x18

* The 9x18 is deadly

* The 9x19 is deadly

* The 9x18 and 9x19 are not ballistic twins; the 9x19 is ballistically superior to the 9x18 in every regard.

Heck, I like the 9x18 and trust this cartridge to save my hide when I carry my P64. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking its something that it's not. In terms of performance, it should be regarded as a hot .380acp which is plenty good enough for most handgun applications.

 

[harmon rabb]

Heck, I like the 9x18 and trust on to save my hide when I carry my P64. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking its something that it's not. In terms of performance, it should be regarded as a hot .380acp which is plenty good enough for most handgun applications.

Very few try to compare the round itself favorably to a 9mm luger. Doing so is just ignoring physics. 9x19 slaughters 9x18 ballistically. It isn't even close. 9x19 beats up 9x18, steals its lunch money, then sleeps with its little sister. And probably its mother too.

What some of us do is compare the guns, and here, the 9x18's shine, because they're cheap and good. Simple as that. My cz-82 and my springfield emp are similar in size. The emp is chambered in the more powerful 9x19, the cz-82 in the weaker 9x18, but the cz does hold more rounds. Both have great triggers. I can shoot both very well.

Now, let's look at price. $1000+ for the emp vs. under $200 for the cz-82. Price doesn't matter so much to me, but what if it did? I wouldn't even bother considering guns like the EMP for carry.

 

[Fastcast]

Sure, if you're shooting HP rounds there's a substantial difference....If all you're shooting is FMJ ball, I don't buy the super advantage. At SD distances 9x18 has plenty of penetration and than some.

 

[harmon rabb]

Sure, if you're shooting HP rounds there's a substantial difference....If all you're shooting is FMJ ball, I don't buy the super advantage. At SD distances 9x18 has plenty of penetration and than some.

And why wouldn't you use hollow points, especially in 9x19, where there are more quality hollow point rounds than you can shake a stick at?

Let's be real. 9x18 has fans because of the guns chambered in it, and not really the other way around. I should know. I own... uh... 5 guns chambered in 9x18

 

[Fastcast]

And why wouldn't you use hollow points, especially in 9x19, where there are more quality hollow point rounds than you can shake a stick at?

Let's be real. 9x18 has fans because of the guns chambered in it, and not really the other way around. I should know. I own... uh... 5 guns chambered in 9x18

I'm not arguing that point, trying not to argue at all.....I realize what you're saying but I know people who will only carry ball ("for reliability") in any caliber.

FTR.....I only carry ball in 9x18....9x19 HP....I have only mentioned the comparisons with the use of FMJ ball ammo....Go back and read my posts.

I also like both the guns and caliber....YMMV

 

[Thorgrim]

Not really. All my 9x18 ammo is hollow point, and it all works in my Mak flawlessly. If it opens, great. If it fails to open, it's the same as FMJ. Win/win.

 

[Gato Montés]

That depends on how well you can shoot a G19. I'm a much, much better shot with my cz-82 (or 1911 for that matter) than with any glock. For that reason, I personally would rather carry a cz-82 than a G19, even though you give up ballistics and firepower in making that choice.

Hear Hear! I ended up selling my G19 because my smallish hands couldn't accommodate the large grip size of the Glock. It seems that the grip size of the 82 is just about perfect for me, not to mention the stellar trigger!

 

[CZguy]

Hear Hear! I ended up selling my G19 because my smallish hands couldn't accommodate the large grip size of the Glock. It seems that the grip size of the 82 is just about perfect for me, not to mention the stellar trigger!

Then what size hands does a Glock fit? I have large hands and had to file the finger groves off of my Model 32C. I put one of the Hoage grip sleeves on, but it doesn't fit me near as good as a CZ-82 or P01 or CZ 75B or CZ RAMI.

I like the Glock because it's in .357 Sig, and has a good magazine capacity. In other words, I love it on paper, but in the real world it's just not working out for me.

 

[Onward Allusion]

Pigoutultra
.380 vs. 9mm Makarov

9x18 Makarov all the way - a little more energy and ammo more than a little cheaper than .380ACP... What's not to like. I also would pick the 32ACP over the .380 because of that one additional round between a P32 & a P3AT. Come to think of it, I don't have anything chambered in .380ACP.

 

[Snowdog]

Very few try to compare the round itself favorably to a 9mm luger. Doing so is just ignoring physics. 9x19 slaughters 9x18 ballistically. It isn't even close. 9x19 beats up 9x18, steals its lunch money, then sleeps with its little sister. And probably its mother too.

And I have diet Pepsi in my sinus cavities because of this.

I am quite the fan of all the handguns I currently own or ever have owned chambered for the 9x18 and respect the cartridge as perfectly viable for defensive use within reason. I've said before in other threads that I'd value the defensive capabilities of both the P64 and the slightly more powerful J-frame .38 special about the same as the P64 holds two more rounds when chambered.
Thus, I feel equally as well armed with either.

However, I have noticed a few folks have hinted on this forum and others that the 9x18 is a turbo-charged soviet era round that so greatly transcends the energy/effectiveness of the similar .380 acp as to essentially reside in the non +P 9mm realm.
This, of course is hokey. Normally I'll ignore such statements but after hearing it so darn often, I've just got to set things straight... or attempt to.

Another fact folks point out is that it's of a larger diameter. Yes, it is ever so slightly larger in diameter (again, a difference 2.25% for those who like numbers) but I'd imagine this wouldn't manifest itself in anyway in the real world. To handle a pulled/unloaded 9mm Makarov FMJ and a .380 acp FMJ, it's clear there's very little difference. It's very much akin to comparing the bullets from a .270 Winchester and a .280 Remington; there's a difference, but hardly so.
The holes they punch in paper is nearly indistinguishable from each other, if so at all.

It's perfectly adequate cartridge for doing what handguns are asked to do by those with common sense, currently inexpensive to shoot and chambered in handguns that represent tremendous values.
Besides the value/cost of ammunition, the other driving force behind the 9x18's gaining popularity is due to the CZ-82 that became C&R eligible in 2007 and the Radom P64 that became C&R eligible in 2010..

 

[Girodin]

That depends on how well you can shoot a G19. I'm a much, much better shot with my cz-82 (or 1911 for that matter) than with any glock.

I'd take my steyr over either for what its worth. Its like a glock for people that some how cant manage to shoot a glock. Glock haters seem to really like its grip and it has IMHO a superior trigger. If a glock is not your flavor then there a many similar sized non glock guns.

Then what size hands does a Glock fit?

Good question I know people from small women to very large men that seem to think theirs fits a glock just fine.

Holding my CZ 82 right now and comparing to my glock I find it interesting that one would claim one is a stellar fit and they other a horrible one. To each his own though.

 

[harmon rabb]

Holding my CZ 82 right now and comparing to my glock I find it interesting that one would claim one is a stellar fit and they other a horrible one. To each his own though.

Glocks fit my hand just fine. It's the mushy trigger that doesn't agree with me so much.

 

[Bmac1949]

I keep a CZ 82 in the console of my truck. I picked it up for $200 with extras (holster, extra mag and 2 boxes of ammo). I had been taking my Combat Commander with me. After putting over 300 rounds through the Mak with out a problem I quit carrying the .45 with me. My reason for this is if my truck is ever broken into I haven't lost a bunch of money. Needless to say I have confidence in the CZ or I wouldn't be using it for SD.

 

[gordy]

I voted for the 380,
I have a kel-tec and reload for the 380.
I have no problems getting components.
It is very hard to find brass for the 9x18. If you find it it is pricey.
Not to much in bulk bullets to be found.
Lots of fmj commie ammo out there, but the fmj is not the best choice in PD.
Good for the range, not PD. 380 hp is as good as 9x18 fmj.
9x18 is a hot little round, but the guns are heavy and the parts will, In time be very hard to get. So you would want 3 guns. One to shoot and two for parts.
In time as with the 7.62x39 the ammo price will get very high compared to now.
So with the extra money to buy extra parts(guns) I will stick with the 380.

 

[soonerboomer]

Ruger LCP better than any Makarov?... What??? Blasphemy!!!

"Ruger LCP is way better then any Mak" - BushyGuy

Uh huh, yeah right!
How about if you bring over your LCP, and I'll get my East German Makarov and we'll submit them to a extended fire torture test?
Oh wait, I almost forgot, they already did that with the Makarov in multiple theaters of combat around the world.
So, I guess we can just beat the hell out of your LCP to see how long it lasts.
Your buying the ammo.

 

[Bmac1949]

You can trim 1mm off of Para brass and use it in the Mak and while parts aren't easy to find, there is a good selection at places like CZ-USA.

 

[harmon rabb]

You can trim 1mm off of Para brass and use it in the Mak and while parts aren't easy to find, there is a good selection at places like CZ-USA.

CZ still runs off batches of cz-83's from time to time, and they're the same darn gun as the cz-82 but with a different barrel. Shouldn't be difficult to get any cz-82 part you need. Mak parts are all out there too.

 

[David E]

"Ruger LCP is way better then any Mak"

For typical pocket carry, he's right.

For typical belt carry, he's wrong.

It's all about context.

 

[Mayo]

Seems like the poll results have given you a clear cut answer.