.38spl +p in .357 mag case?

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wankerjake

wankerjake

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Hey fellas, another reloading question for ya. I shot some .38spl +p today, 5.0gr Titegroup behind a 125gr JHP. They shot great, good accuracy and even the +p is like a pop gun in my SP101, compared to .357 mags. So, the max charge ot titegroup in .38spl +p is 5.0 gr, but the minimum charge of titegroup out of the .357 mag is 6.8gr. The difference between these loads is pretty substantial. My question is; can I safely work up loads in between 5.0gr and 6.8gr of titegroup in .357 cases, as a sort of light magnum. I like the low recoil of the +p loads but I also like the extra punch of the mag loads. However, the difference in recoil is very substantial between the .38 +p and the light 6.8gr mag loads. I have tried them both, and I'm looking for something in between. When I find a load I like best they will be my concealed carry ammunition. I have a 9mm as my primary home defense gun. I just wanted to see if there are any hazards of doing this before I tried it out. Or should I just email Hodgdon to find this out?
 
I don't think it'll be a problem. You may find 5 grains in a 357 kind of weak. As the 357 case is a good bit larger you'll need to up your charge about 8 to 10 percent for equivalent velocity. You may also find having more powder in the case will make your groups more consistent.

I've done this with Universal and 700X without issues. This will eliminate the carbon ring that builds up in your cylinder from the shorter 38 Specials. Secondly. These rounds wont accidentally end up in a 38 Special revolver that's not rated for +P loads

All the Best,
D. White
 
Yes.

Try 6.0 grains in the .357 case.
Should be about what you want.

I would not go as low as 5.0 in the .357 case, as pressure would be getting pretty low, and there might be a very slim chance of sticking a jacketed bullet in the bore.

Also keep in mind that not all 125 gr JHP's will open reliably at low velocity.

I'd look at Speer GD 135 grain short-barrel bullets if you can find them somewhere.

http://www.midwayusa.com/Eproductpage.Exe/showproduct?saleitemid=320047

rc
 
I agree 6.0gr is a good starting point. If you have access to a Chrono you can find the exact match for those .38 Sp+P rounds in a .357 Magnum case.
 
One of these days, when I get around to it.... I want to do the exact same thing, but using W231.

I can tell you this much, shooting max loads of fast burning powders in .357 is no fun! (at least not as I reckon fun, though I must say that the fire ball is impressive :) ).

And you can call me a sissy, but I really don't get much enjoyment out of shooting full boat .357 loads either.

This will eliminate the carbon ring that builds up in your cylinder from the shorter 38 Specials. Secondly. These rounds wont accidentally end up in a 38 Special revolver that's not rated for +P loads
Click to expand...

And this is exaclty why I want to do it.

It seems that down loading traditional magnum powders like 296 or 2400 is one of the few instances where an under charge is reported to be potentially dangerous.

So loading up a stout .38 spl +P+ type load in the .357 case with a fast powder seems like a great idea.

I've been wanting to try 5.5 gr. of W231.... but have been having to much fun loading for my rifles and just took up cranking out higher volumes of 9mm Luger.

But then again, if I replaced the pretty wood grips on my Taurus 689 with a good pair of Hogues, I might find the full boat .357 mag. loads more acceptable.

So little time... so many projects!
 
Thanks for the advice guys. Just to clarify the .38 +p loads I was shooting with 5.0gr titegroup were out of .38spl cases. I'll try 6.0gr and see what I have. I'll also shoot some jugs to see how they mushroom.
 
SSN Vet,
Even though I'm a big fan of W231 and use a lot of it I would suggest a slightly slower powder for building .38 Special +P rounds in a .357 Magnum case. I'm also a big fan of HS-6. It's a great medium speed powder which is fairly low flash, it's clean and it's also very accurate when loading Lead bullets as well as Jacketed. You will be surprised at how low the pressures are when you use HS-6 with heavier bullets.
 
ArchAngelCD has a good summary here--i.e., in the shortbarrel reloading we worked up, we've found that powders like HS-6, AA#5, and Ramshot's True Blue work well for 38+P loads in 357 cases.

The only caveat here is that these results are typically with the 'heavier' bullets--e.g., the GDSB 135-gr JHP rcmodel mentioned, and with more conventional 158-gr LSWCs, etc. I've built some 125-gr. loads for testing, and that may resume this week or next.

The only way to do it--i.e., build a ballistically-similar load in 357 cases--is with a chronograph. You can't do it by feel--the 357 recoil will be "more full," and that subjective reaction gets tangled up with "hardness."

Jim H.
 
SSN Vet,
HS-6 will perform very well in a 6" barrel revolver because it's a fairly slow middle range pistol powder. The more I use HS-6 the more I like it. Like I said, it's a very accurate when loading for lead bullets unlike some of the newer powders which seem to favor jacketed bullets.

(Hey Jim, how have you been??)
 
i've never had a problem with .38 spl loads in .357 mag cases.... they are only 1/10 of inch different.....

what do you do with pirates?? you shoot them......... charles krauthammer............................
 
Reloaded rounds for self defense♦

As an aside to this discussion, it is a bad idea to carry anything other than off the shelf factory ammo for self defense. Two reasons; one being the reliability issue if you ever have to use it, the other is the liability issue if you use"custom loads". The prosecution may make it work against you if it comes down to that.Not a sermon, just a thought. Good Luck, Happy shooting.
 
skeetman59,
My handloads are more reliable than any factory ammo ever made. There are no reliability issues with handloads unless the person reloading is a real boob... ;)
 
skeetman59,
My handloads are more reliable than any factory ammo ever made. There are no reliability issues with handloads unless the person reloading is a real boob...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have yet to have a "dud" or squib with reloaded ammunition. I consider my reloads better, if I didn't I wouldn't carry them. Also not to start a big debate, but it is my understanding that the use of reloaded ammunition has never been known to sway a self-defense case one way or the other. If I don't get a load I like, then I'll carry factory.
 
Great thread, thanks guys. I'm looking at doing this myself so I'll ask some more questions. I just ordered several hundred .357 cases so I'll be ready to start experimenting in the next week or so. So far I've just been loading .38 special rounds and shooting them. Here's my background.
Shooting 6" S&W 686 and 3" SP101
Powders - Unique, W231, & HS-6 (new to me, never used it for any loads)
Bullets: 158 gr. Lead SWC

What is a good recommendation, to start at minimum charge for .357 and work down to the .38 range? This seems logical, but I'm not sure. I will work up to the fuller .357 loads as is recommended, but I would prefer the softer shooting loads for practice and economy.

From what I read, the Unique and HS-6 would probably be the best powders to use. If you can give some advice on starting charges and any other tips, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
 
"...start at minimum charge..." Use cast bullet(not jacketed data) starting loads for .38 Special if you want .38 Special velocities. Mind you, you don't want Plus P velocities with a cast bullet.
 
CBP,
All 3 powders you have will work well with lead bullets. For making up some "fuller power" .357 Magnum rounds using those 158gr LSWC bullets I would use HS-6. You can get the data you need form the Hodgdon Load Data Site. In a .357 Magnum using a 158gr LSWC and HS-6 they recommend a starting charge of 6.0gr with a Max charge of 7.0gr. (always check the data for yourself) I've found HS-6 works best up near the top end. It's more accurate and cleaner up there. You will also notice the pressures are lower with HS-6 even though you are achieving the same velocities as other powders. I'm a big fan of HS-6 and like it more every time I use it.
 
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