38spl PPC of yesteryear / todays 9mm

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gmackhurry

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Not an easy title to catch interest.
So yesteryear’s 38spl 148gr HBWC over 2.7 gr of Bullseye was/is the unfailing PPC target recipe since forever.
Now that we have great guns like the S&W 929 6” revolver in 9mm, I would like to know what is the unfailing great load for a 9mm revolver. Is there such a thing?
 
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I'm not sure anyone used a 9mm Semi auto in PPC competition over the years so I doubt the load you seek was ever developed being the 929 isn't that old of a design.
I guess the closest gun that could've fit the bill was the convertible Black Hawk for 38 cal and 9mm both. Don't know when it came out but you may be developing the load yourself.
Let us know how you make out.
I would try 3.8gr of Tightgroup with a 124gr bullet at 1.10". I would think the OAL would still matter with this being for a revolver.
Pressure is pressure.
 
So yesteryear’s 38spl 148gr DEWC over 2.7 gr of Bullseye was/is the unfailing PPC target recipe since forever.
I always understood it was 2.7grs of Bullseye under a flush seated HBWC.

Now that we have great guns like the S&W 929 6” revolver in 9mm, I would like to know what is the unfailing great load for a 9mm revolver.
I'm loading a 147gr Blue Bullet over 3.4gr of N320, which is a very nice load.

If you like Bullseye, 2.5grs is pretty nice under a 147gr lead/coated bullet
 
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Can't beat the 2.7 grains of Bullseye for a .38 with 148 grain wadcutters.
For my 9 mms I use VhitaVhouri N320 and 160 grain lead round nose bullets with 2.9 grains of powder. Out of my 929 it is very accurate and very little recoil.
 
When the FBI started it and the Police Marksman's Association ran it, PPC meant Practical Police Course. Now NRA is in charge and they think it means Police Pistol Combat.
NRA strictly limits it to cops, or at least uniformed auxiliaries.
It requires less speed and more accuracy than most shooters enjoy now, but it was sure a lot better for AGEs than bullseyes
 
I bet there are a lot more powders to choose from than there was when 2.7gr of Bullseye under a148gr hbwc ruled the range. At one point in time I'll bet 98% of the people shooting that load had a S&W or a Colt
Now there are probably 4 main weights for a 9mm bullet. There is 115,124,135 and 147 grain bullets in common use. There is also thousands of variations of 9mm guns considering brands, models, rifling type, barrel length, etc.
Each one if those is going to have a different bullet weight and profile that works best, not mention a best powder along with best charge weight for that bullet. There are so many choices of powder and bullet available for 9mm, you may never find the absolute best target load for your Glock, Ruger, S&W, HK, Fn, Highpoint, Walther, Taurus, etc
 
Kowing what the title says makes it easier to catch interest, thanks for defining PPC.
 
And here I thought THR was going to make us Pay Per Click!?!
If it is the NRA Police Pistol Combat, it looks like reloaded ammunition is ok and as long as the bullet punches a hole in the paper it counts. That means no PF specified so the heaviest bullet you can load with the fastest powders will produce the minimum felt recoil. Lead or coated will take less powder than jacketed, but you’ll have to judge if they’re accurate enough. I’d start with 147’s, but there are 165’s available. N320 is excellent and can be downloaded easily. I haven’t tried N310 yet but hear it’s excellent as well. TG will work but produces a bit more felt recoil, at least to me. Good luck and let us know what you decide!
 
A friend is still active in PPC and he still loads Bullseye for his wadcutters; and semiwadcutters, too. On a Star Progressive at that. I don't know for sure what he loads 9mm with but I know Bullseye works there, too. But he has some hoarded 9mm Hydrashok that is especially accurate and he reserves that for the 50 yard line.

Me? I load most non-magnum handgun ammo with W231/HP38; 3.2 gr is good with a .38 Wadcutter. But my very light .45 ACP gets Bullseye.
 
I always understood it was 2.7grs of Bullseye under a flush seated HBWC.
.

Corrected, thanks for that. I use the Hornady HB’s, can no longer find them lately.
The MBC DEWC PPC2 is pretty good. Seems to need a bit more pressure though at 12 Brinell. The bump out is hard to achieve at slow speeds.
 
I’ve shot PPC for decades.
I’ve got records with both revolver and autos.

Since ‘07-08 Obama ammogeddon, the rules have relaxed a bit.
Factory loaded ammo is no longer required for the “distinguished” matches.

I find it difficult to beat HP38/Win231 under a Quality 115gr jacketed hollow point for the 9mm. My preferred load was 4.9gr of HP38 under either a Hornady or Remington 115jhp at 1.125” OAL.
I used 4.5gr of Bullseye under a Sierra 115 Tournament Master. I won the Service Semi Aggregate in ‘97 using this (service semi auto, Distinguished Semi- Auto,) However, I had a bullet set back in the case and pierced a primer blocking the firing pin hole in match 1, 6th shot of 1st string. Cost me 70pts, and the 1500- Semi Auto match. I cleaned match 2, Won match 3, and 5, cleaned match 4. Lost the aggregate (1500) by 67pts, so a clean Match would have won.... also cost me high conservation officer, and a national record too.
so, I don’t use Bullseye or Federal primers in my Semi Autos anymore. Call me superstitious...

I tried 147’s, but the slow twist in my S&W Performance Ctr 9’s aren’t fast enough. The late production PPC9’s went to a faster twist. 1/14” IIRC, to better accommodate 147’s.

I used WSF in both 115’s and 147’s. But only use jacketed hollow points in regional or Nationals.
I went to personal cast bullets. Specifically, the Lee 120gr FN-TC. I cast them from a 6-cav mold that “rains” good bullets. Sized .357” lubed with SPG loaded over 5.2gr of LongShot, they shot as good as I can. In 2008, I shot a 240x24X tying a National record in the South Carolina regional in match 8 (7-15yd line). Because the range officer died before the match was recorded by the NRA, myself and the other shooter didn’t get credit for 7yrs....

Because of the difference in cost, and barrel dwell time of the 147’s, I prefer the 115’s. 124’s are good, preferable for self defense, but often go transsonic prior to the 50yd line doing strange things especially if there’s a strong cross wind. In 2019 I had a lengthy conversation with David Sams, a former AMU armorer who builds premier Beretta and 1911 match pistols for bullseye competition. He stated that he was using either Hornady or Atlanta arms 115 jhps over N350 or N340 for 1,300+ FPS. He was also using iirc a 24” twist to reduce barrel torque and bullet exit before the barrel begins unlocking. Again, my issue with the 147’s... barrel time.

To rehash, HP38 is still hard to beat. A 124gr bullet loaded to 1,070fps is what Larry Haney of Georgia Arrms told me is what he’s loading. He’s using a canister grade powder I’m not familiar with. He’s actually using Atlanta Arms bullets... go figure! This starts subsonic so doesn’t go transonic.
I can, with the THR discount get RMR 115 and 124gr MPR jhp’s shipped! For what the Atlanta Arms bullets costs, plus there is shipping and Georgia internet sales tax.
I can’t shoot, or detect a difference in accuracy. So, there’s that!

There are several new powders on the market that I would try out, but I have already got several years supply of ACC#5, HP38, and LongShot. I’ve got 1lb samples of Power Pistol, CFE-Pistol, Be-86, and Sport Pistol. Being afraid of not being able to replace my stocks of primers makes me reluctant to practice an adequate amount.

It takes a lot of shooting over 6weeks to get back to competition form, and then bi-weekly practice, daily dry firing, and a modicum of physical fitness to have the stamina to spend all day on the range firing 4,5, or 6 matches, expending as much as 500rds in a two-three day match...
Between a beta blocker that is prohibited and blood pressure medication that makes me very intolerant of heat, and advancing arthritis (Docs can’t figure out if it’s Osteoarthritis or Rheumatoid, no blood markers for Rheumatoid, but it’s responding much better if treated as such.) My competition days are over. My right shoulder is such I can’t hold or shoulder a match rifle anymore...

PS: forget TiteGroup in the 9. It’s too “peakish” and often won’t cycle the popular long slide 1911’s. My 6” PPC-9 is massive and needs a good push to cycle positively.
I also suggest a Redding .Competition seating die...

I Hope my rambling has given you some useful information.
 
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A friend is still active in PPC and he still loads Bullseye for his wadcutters; and semiwadcutters, too. On a Star Progressive at that. I don't know for sure what he loads 9mm with but I know Bullseye works there, too. But he has some hoarded 9mm Hydrashok that is especially accurate and he reserves that for the 50 yard line.

You say Star Progressive like it is a bad thing :). That is still the way I roll today.........
 
Not bad at all.
One of my many regrets is going cheap with a CH Autochamp instead of coughing up the price of a Star in 1978. The CH is rusting under the bench, the Star would still be in use.
 
Out of the dozen various bullets and dozen different powders I’ve tried in my 929 the best combo I’ve got is 3.6 grains N340 with a 160 grain WFN. It does good out to 50 yards on paper and have hit many steel targets at 100.
 
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