40 S&W help

[bob4]

Continuing to develop a load this one jammed into the chamber pretty tight and took a bit to get out. The primer has no indent from the pin. This load is up .2 gn from a previous load that didn't cycle well at all. 3 or so rounds before it went fine and a few after it went fine also. So I think the XD 40 is fine.
Any help would be appreciated.

Missouri
.401 Diameter
.40 S&W
140 Grain TCFP
WSF 5.6 gn.
OAL 1.118

 

[Jlr2267]

looks like it's not crimped

 

[243winxb]

Do the plunk test

Try a shorter oal. 1.085" is SAAMI minimum.

 

[Conservidave]

From the picture, it looks like the bullet is bigger than the case mouth. It also looks like lead was pushed up into a ring where the bullet was seated.

 

[243winxb]

Yes, the photo shows something went very wrong, some where.

 

[bob4]

I'll check the plunk test again. I will also check the roll crimp again. Yes the bullet looks a bit bigger than the case. If you run your fingernail down the cone it will now catch that portion of the bullet where you see that ring/rim is. Just can't figure where that happened. I only built 7 of these rounds to test. (Hate pulling pistol rounds.) And I measured and looked at each one when finished.

 

[243winxb]

Taper crimp is needed.

 

[bob4]

OOOPs thats what I meant. Thanks. I have a RCBS seating/taper crimp die.

 

[Mauser69]

Just a WAG, but the picture looks to me like the seating plunger was adjusted too deep for the crimp, and the bullet was forced lower as the taper crimp was being applied (hence that funny lead ring around the base of the taper).

 

[TfflHndn]

Try seating and crimping in separate steps, and see if that helps.

 

[Reefinmike]

OOOPs thats what I meant. Thanks. I have a RCBS seating/taper crimp die.

just to clear things up a bit, no crimp is needed on an auto pistol round. you just want to iron out any case flare that you applied to the case to seat the bullet. The mouth of the case should not be digging into the bullet any at all. From the picture, it appears like you have way way way too much crimp on that bullet.

 

[LiveLife]

I agree. Something looks terribly wrong in the picture.

MBC 140 gr bullet (IDP #7) loaded at 1.125" OAL (see picture below).

Do the plunk test

+1. And if your barrel's leade/freebore is longer, I have loaded TCFP bullets to 1.143" to reduce gas leakage and to improve accuracy - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9362819#post9362819

 

[Mauser69]

just to clear things up a bit, no crimp is needed on an auto pistol round. you just want to iron out any case flare that you applied to the case to seat the bullet. The mouth of the case should not be digging into the bullet any at all. From the picture, it appears like you have way way way too much crimp on that bullet.

I very much disagree with the first part of this statement - auto pistol rounds DO need a crimp. It is needed to prevent bullet setback from inertia when the rounds are slammed into the front of the magazine each time a gun is fired. Bullet setback can be VERY dangerous, since it reduces internal case volume and can dramatically increase pressures.

The main issue here is concerning the TYPE of crimp. The pistol needs a TAPER crimp, not the roll crimp used on revolver ammo. Rounds that headspace on the case mouth instead of rim must have the flat front of the brass left proud of the bullet, not turned in to create a rolled crimp. A proper taper crimp does this.

The OP's picture shows no sign of a roll crimp to me. I suggested earlier that the problem could be improper adjustment of the seating plug, causing the bullet to be pushed lower while the taper crimp was being applied. Another, probably better, possibility is that the round looked OK initially, but the taper crimp was insufficient, causing the bullet to be forced deeper (setback) while he was shooting other rounds, thus causing the raised lead ring. This hypothesis is actually supported somewhat by the description in the OP.

 

[ATLDave]

What's the brass headstamp?

 

[LiveLife]

no crimp is needed on an auto pistol round. you just want to iron out any case flare that you applied to the case to seat the bullet. The mouth of the case should not be digging into the bullet any at all.

I very much disagree with the first part of this statement - auto pistol rounds DO need a crimp. It is needed to prevent bullet setback from inertia when the rounds are slammed into the front of the magazine each time a gun is fired.

I disagree and actually agree with Reefinmike.

Neck tension comes from resizing of case neck and resulting friction between case wall and bullet base. Taper crimp does not increase neck tension and can actually decrease neck tension (if too much tamper crimp is applied) especially with plated/lead bullets by reducing the bullet diameter while brass "spring back" can occur to reduce the amount of friction applied to the bullet base.

For autoloading calibers that headspace off case mouth, I only return the flare back to flat on the bullet. To determine this amount of taper crimp I usually add .022" to the diameter of the bullet as case wall averages .011" in thickness. Of course, if case wall is thinner, more taper crimp would be needed.

So for .401" lead bullets, I use .401" + .011" + .011" = .423" taper crimp

Bullet setback can be VERY dangerous, since it reduces internal case volume and can dramatically increase pressures.

This I absolutely agree with and test my neck tension by feeding/chambering rounds from the magazine as bullet nose slamming against the feed ramp better duplicates the slide cycling forces than slow push against the bench top. While I reload to experience no bullet setback, I consider OAL reduction up to a few thousandths acceptable but if I measure OAL reduction more than .005", I investigate for neck tension issue.

 

[Robert101]

yes, see dbs post 12 for the way your rounds should look. Plunk them in the chamber to confirm the fit.

 

[bob4]

Thanks everyone, Here's what happened this eve. I made a few rounds. OAL is now 1.115. Plunk test is perfect. Drop a round in and it slides right out. I reset the die according to RCBS instructions. Everything seemed fine until I tried to chamber one from the mag. The recoil assembly was still protruding from the gun. No fire. Dropped the mag pulled the slide and let it slam. It fired but the next round did the same thing. Back to the shed.

What I noticed tonight was that the rounds I made, once chambered by letting the slide slam were still hard to get out just using the slide. Something was catching and feeling rough ,if you will when it gave way. For the heck of it I made a dummy round that measured 1.105 and it seemed to let me use the slide much easier.​

I certainly don't know enough to know what I'm looking at here. Hope this makes any sense and someone has an idea.
9mm were much easier.

 

[bob4]

Just saw BDS post. No mine do not look like that. According to his picture I have to much crimp on the ones I made tonight.

 

[LiveLife]

I think you have way too much taper crimp.

Try to lessen the taper crimp to around .422" - .423" so the CASE MOUTH headspaces on the chamber.

(.401" bullet diameter + .011" case wall + .011" case wall = .423")

 

[theleo]

To be honest I've never played with reloading 40's. My sneaking suspicion is you are putting to much crimp on it an bulging the case slightly. I'm also thinking you might be shaving the lead a little when you are seating the bullet.

 

[ljnowell]

40 S&W help

Thanks everyone, Here's what happened this eve. I made a few rounds. OAL is now 1.115. Plunk test is perfect. Drop a round in and it slides right out. I reset the die according to RCBS instructions. Everything seemed fine until I tried to chamber one from the mag. The recoil assembly was still protruding from the gun. No fire. Dropped the mag pulled the slide and let it slam. It fired but the next round did the same thing. Back to the shed.

What I noticed tonight was that the rounds I made, once chambered by letting the slide slam were still hard to get out just using the slide. Something was catching and feeling rough ,if you will when it gave way. For the heck of it I made a dummy round that measured 1.105 and it seemed to let me use the slide much easier.​

I certainly don't know enough to know what I'm looking at here. Hope this makes any sense and someone has an idea.

9mm were much easier.

If when they chambered they were hard to get back out it sounds as if your OAL is still too long. Have you verified the max OAL for this firearm?

EDIT: went back and looked at your OAL that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[243winxb]

What I noticed tonight was that the rounds I made, once chambered by letting the slide slam were still hard to get out just using the slide. Something was catching and feeling rough ,if you will when it gave way. For the heck of it I made a dummy round that measured 1.105 and it seemed to let me use the slide much easier.

Try a shorter oal. 1.085" is SAAMI minimum. Loose the lip that is protruding in Bds photo. Xd's have tight chambers. And you may need more taper crimp then you think.

 

[bob4]

I think you have way too much taper crimp.

Try to lessen the taper crimp to around .422" - .423" so the CASE MOUTH headspaces on the chamber.

(.401" bullet diameter + .011" case wall + .011" case wall = .423")

I'm pretty sure I'm closer to .420 .. I'll change that tomorrow or the next day and get back to you. Thanks.

 

[bob4]

Try a shorter oal. 1.085" is SAAMI minimum. Loose the lip that is protruding in Bds photo. Xd's have tight chambers. And you may need more taper crimp then you think.

Thanks 243, I think I have lost the lip in BDS photo if you'll look at my last photo, and I'm still having issues.

 

[243winxb]

Photos not clear to me. If not the lip, then lead shaving? Maybe flare/bell the case mouth more?