41 mag load development

[RealGun]

I like the heavy bullets in the .41, nothing wrong with them. Both my Dan Wesson and the Marlin 1894 love the Cast Performance 250 GC bullet.

Personally, I would back down off the max charge of H110, and keep the magnum primer, and then see where your accuracy goes.

He wants full power hunting loads and AA #7 isn't going to get it for him.

I agree. Personally, I would try something like IMR4227 if H110 isn't giving him the accuracy he's looking for.

I have a number of sources for reloading 41 Magnum, and I load that cartridge myself. I find very little support for loading any bullets over 215 grains. I don't ever see loads published for H110 that suggest anything but a magnum primer. I recall a number of comments about backing very much off max with H110 giving erratic results.

I did not take issue with him wanting "full power hunting loads" as the books would define that. I suggested that trying to create something for bear with a heavy bullet was beyond the 41 Magnum in the sense that I don't know of any published support for that idea. ICBW. Personally, I think of 44 Magnum or heavier for that sort of devastation.

 

[Dirt farmer]

Initially, I was hoping to drive a 41 magnum 210 grain jacketed bullet at about 1500 fps with 1 inch groups at 15 yards. That should be doable with a 8 3/8" barreled revolver, right?

Lyman 50th edition shows 210 gr. Jacketed HP with:
H110 powder starting at 20.5 gr and max at 21.5 gr with 1473 fps velocity
2400 powder starting at 16 gr and max at 17.8 gr with 1262 fps velocity
IMR-4227 stating at 18.0 gr and max at 20.0 gr with 1212 fps velocity​

Originally I was going to go the way of Elmer Keith with about 20 grains of Alliant 2400 powder. But I got dissuaded by all the internet info and went with H110 instead. I cannot get good accuracy without getting the super-flat primers.
I'm having fun shooting my Model 57 again but I only have 40 bullets left of my limited supply of Remington 210 gr JSP bullets. I'm so disappointed with where I am after all this work with H110 I'm about to go buy the 2400 powder. Any reason why not?
Charlie98 - please tell me why would you chose IMR-4227 over Alliant 2400?
Also, If Lyman manual maximum 2400 is 17.8 gr how was Elmer Keith using 20 grains? I can't imagine it was ok in just his particular S&W Model 57 gun, right?

 

[Charlie98]

Dirk, I tried 2400 many years ago and I didn't have very good results with it. I should probably try it again, but I had very good luck last year with IMR4227... and I can use it in reduced .30-30 and .45-70 loads (although 2400 will do that, too.) In the end, I think they are very similar. Based on your Lyman data, neither will give you the velocity you are looking for, and H110 barely does.

Here is some of my data that I've worked up using a 6" Dan Wesson, those are my chrono readings.

Rem 210grn JSP, 20.8grn W296, 1325fps
215grn cast commercial SWC, 19.5grn IMR4227, 1200fps
215grn cast Keith SWC, 18.5grn W296, 1100fps

The extra 2" of barrel will help, but I don't know... The only way I got IMR4227 to 1500fps was in my Marlin 1894.

I find very little support for loading any bullets over 215 grains. I

Seriously??? It's all over the place if you look for it. There is data in the Lee manual, data at Hodgdon online up to 265grn, Cast Performance provides their own data, and I've seen other data. Heavies in the .41 are just like heavies in the .44, minus the differences in bore diameter.

I do agree with you about the magnum primer with W296/H110, however, and I'm not suggesting backing way off either W296 or H110, I always start at the published starting load. Dirk is working with a very limited number of bullets... and there is no more where those came from, so I can sympathize with him trying to accelerate his search for a good load.

 

[RealGun]

Seriously??? It's all over the place if you look for it.

I think you are wrong to argue that point. I found the same few references. Clearly the 215 is the nominal weight for 41 Magnum.

Yesterday I shot my 6" Flat Top 41 with 215 lead and 18.0 gr IMR4227. It is an easy load in that gun but the cases are still pretty fouled by that powder and may clean up with a heavier charge. I use CCI magnum primers.

 

[Charlie98]

I think you are wrong to argue that point. I found the same few references. Clearly the 215 is the nominal weight for 41 Magnum.

Yesterday I shot my 6" Flat Top 41 with 215 lead and 18.0 gr IMR4227. It is an easy load in that gun but the cases are still pretty fouled by that powder and may clean up with a heavier charge. I use CCI magnum primers.

I think you are wrong to say there is very little support; there is, obviously, not only data but components from reliable sources to support my claim. Federal and Winchester market 250grn and 240grn, respectively, factory loadings. Yes, 215grn is the nominal weight just like 240grn is the nominal .44 weight, etc, etc. That is not to say it is the only weight. Stop making stuff up.

That was one of the things l liked about IMR4227, I thought the recoil impulse wasn't as sharp as with W296. I shot about 100 rounds of that 215grn/19.5grn IMR4227 last year in my 4" 57 and it wasn't a bother at all... not like W296 would have been.

 

[RealGun]

I think you are wrong to say there is very little support; there is, obviously, not only data but components from reliable sources to support my claim. Federal and Winchester market 250grn and 240grn, respectively, factory loadings. Yes, 215grn is the nominal weight just like 240grn is the nominal .44 weight, etc, etc. That is not to say it is the only weight. Stop making stuff up.

That was one of the things l liked about IMR4227, I thought the recoil impulse wasn't as sharp as with W296. I shot about 100 rounds of that 215grn/19.5grn IMR4227 last year in my 4" 57 and it wasn't a bother at all... not like W296 would have been.

So, Walkalong likes petty arguments. Think about how "very little support" does not mean "no support".

 

[ATLDave]

RealGun, this seems more like the disagreements people have over whether components/ammo are "available." To some people, if it's not in-stock at their local Wal-Mart, it's "rare" or "hard to find." To some people, as long as you can order it online and don't have to arrange a special, custom run with a 1k minimum and set-up fees, it's "common" and "easy to get."

 

[RealGun]

RealGun, this seems more like the disagreements people have over whether components/ammo are "available." To some people, if it's not in-stock at their local Wal-Mart, it's "rare" or "hard to find." To some people, as long as you can order it online and don't have to arrange a special, custom run with a 1k minimum and set-up fees, it's "common" and "easy to get."

So back to the OP's topic.

 

[Walkalong]

So, Walkalong likes petty arguments.

Petty arguments I just delete, usually (99%) don't get infracted.

Charlie98 made a point I agreed with, nothing more nothing less. You said you thought he was wrong, and he replied he thought you were wrong. As long as it is polite, there is nothing wrong with anyone telling someone else they think they are wrong. I would hope a point would be made to back it up of course. I think you are wrong and here is why.

 

[Charlie98]

I would hope a point would be made to back it up of course. I think you are wrong and here is why.

I thought I did that pretty well. "Very little support" would be something like the .348WCF, which I also load for. I started handloading for the .41 back in the late '80's... the component and ammunition availability now compared to then is like WalMart vs the country store at the Nowheresville 4-way....

But, as RealGun suggests... back to the OP.

Also, If Lyman manual maximum 2400 is 17.8 gr how was Elmer Keith using 20 grains? I can't imagine it was ok in just his particular S&W Model 57 gun, right?

Dirk, Elmer was known to have damaged a few guns in his time with heavy and overloaded ammo. I can tell you from experience that a steady diet of maximum loads will send your 57 to the shop, that's why I shy away from those full-house charges of H110, et al, at least in my 57's. Now, I'll happily stick that in my Dan Wesson... I understand your purpose, don't get me wrong, but I don't think 1500fps will kill anything deader than 1200-1300fps will, assuming it hits the target.

 

[Dirt farmer]

ok, thanks Dennis. I'll follow your advice and try the IMR 4227 powder for remaining Rem JSP bullets I have. I think someday soon I'll buy some Hornady 210 gr HP XTP bullets and use the remaining H110 on them. Next I'll start testing loads for my two 41mag cast bullets ACME 215 gr SWC and Beartooth 250 grain. I bought a pound of Unique powder.

 

[Charlie98]

If you are looking for a good mid-range plinker load, the 215's and Unique will get you there; Unique is excellent in the .41, but you are only looking at 1100fps If you are looking for a hunting load, you'll have to stick with one of the slower powders.

 

[Dirt farmer]

Yep, mid-range 215 cast plinker with Unique. Please remind me of your suggested Unique powder weight range as my Lymans manual does not list any cast bullets.

 

[Charlie98]

I've been loading 9.0grn Unique under any 215grn bullet, cast or jacketed, with a standard primer, for 20 years. You can back it off a tad if you want a softer shooting load, or I think 10.0grn or thereabouts is max if you want to push them.

 

[Dirt farmer]

Perfect, thanks. One last question (maybe) I have already installed the magnum primers in all my .41 cases. I do have large pistol primers for my 45 ACP available. .Do you suggest I remove the magnum primers or just shoot them as plinkers at this point?

 

[Charlie98]

As long as you are under max load, I wouldn't give it too much thought. For a while I was using Winchester LP primers which claim they are for either standard or magnum loads, I don't see how a magnum primer would hurt on a reasonable charge of something like Unique for a plinker load.

You can, however, pop those primers out slowly with a decapper without fear of setting one off... I've done it many times. Some say you can reuse them, I don't. Just go slow... and wear ear and eye protection.

 

[ga41]

My favorite accuracy load for the 41 is a standard Federal 150 primer with 20gr of H110 and a Nosler 210gr. Outstanding accuracy and fast enough to do the job. I've never even bothered with a magnum primer in over 30 years of 41 reloading