Min loads w/ Win296 in .357 Mag

[TheEngineer]

I'd like to know a safe starting load for Win 296 under a 125 grain XTP bullet for the .357 Magnum. First of all, I do know that Win 296 / H110 can create unsafe pressures if under-loaded, but I've encountered a huge discrepency in recommended starting loads:

Hodgdon: 21.0-22.0 gr
Hornady: 16.9-20.3 gr
Lee: 21.0-22.0 gr

Notice the MAX Hornady load is BELOW the MIN LEE/Hodgdon loads, and all 3 warn against going below their min load. I realize I need to work up to a suitable load for my guns and ambient conditions, but it would help to know where to start.

Which manual ought I consider most credible? Thanks.

 

[ReloaderFred]

It's not high pressure that's caused by reducing the amount of H-110/WW 296, it's squib loads. If the powder doesn't ignite properly, the round will be stuck in the barrel.

Since Hodgdon markets the powder, and Lee just copied their data, I'd go with the Hodgdon data. They know their powder better than anyone else.

I only use those two powders for heavy bullets in any handgun caliber, since I don't consider it well suited to lighter bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[rcmodel]

Well, since Hodgdon is the distributor of Winchester powder now, I believe I would believe them!

The Lee data is just a copy of the old Winchester, now Hodgdon data. They do no load testing of their own.

Hornady is known to be pretty light on all their loads.

rc,

 

[Clark]

I have experimented with how low I can go with H110/W296.

It is more crimp dependent than charge dependent.

The danger is not detonation, but stuck bullets, that cause as many blow ups as over hot loads.

Make sure that roll crimp is in the canalure and is deep.

 

[FM12]

Take a properly sized wood dowel and light hammer to knock out the squibs, if they occur. AND, ANY .38 spl using WW296 or H110 will cause squibs. Trust me on this.

 

[Master Blaster]

The Hornady data is developed using specific Hornady bullets.
What bullets are being used by Hodgdon for their loads?
Are Hornady and Hodgdon both using the same primers? Are they both using magnum primers?
What kind of brass is being used?
Military brass uses loads reduced 10% because of smaller inside case capacity.

These differences could be the reason for the difference in the loads, given the components being different, the powder charges could be different as well, and still make the advertised pressure.

Bullets do make a difference

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like said above, H110/W296 do not react well to light loads. Those 2 powders work best near or at the top end of the pressure curve. They are also hard powders to ignite especially in cold weather. As a matter of fact I get the best results with that powder when there is very little air space in the case. (like Black Powder lol)

If you're looking for middle load instead of a full power load you should consider a different powder. I like HS-6 for medium to medium heavy .357 Magnum loads. There are a lot of other powders that will work well too like Longshot, True Blue, Herco, AA#7 and Power Pistol to mention a few. The most versatile Magnum powder IMO is 2400. It can be download in a Magnum round and still be used for full power loads too. (and you don't need to use a Magnum primer like with W296/H110)

 

[Crazy4nitro]

My Fav. Loading I do is with H-110 and 125gr Jacketed Bullets.
I would Use the Hodgdon Data.
I had some Loads using 21.0gr of H-110 that "Sounded" Flat compared to the Big Flash/Bang of a Load that Ignites Correctly.
I verified this after a few shots by shooting some over my Chrono.

FOR ME, in MY GP-100 4" Barrel:
21.5gr of H-110 with a WSPM Primer nets ME 1545fps Avg
21.0gr of H-110 got me 1430fps Avg with a WIDE Deviation like almost 200Fps ES and about 20% of the rounds shot didnt seem to Shoot like Normal H-110 loads. The "Flat" sounding ones were WELL in the 1300Fps range.

21.5gr of H-110 Gives me a Compressed Load.

Always use a Magnum Primer of Course.

I Hope this Helps.

'Nitro

 

[paperpuncher49]

Straight and too the point, 18 grains is an OK starting load with the 125 grain XTP. I have loaded H110 (it is the exact same propellant as W296) with 18 grains, roll crimped it with the seating die, and had absolutely no squib problems. I have used this in both revolvers and carbines. I do, however, prefer to use Unique because it is less, shall we say, aggressive, and I am not trying to squeeze every possible FPS out of my 357. Also, it is more economical since I get a pleasant to shoot round using 8 grains of Unique with the 125 XTP.

 

[Crazy4nitro]

Straight and too the point, 18 grains is an OK starting load with the 125 grain XTP.

I dont know what your Basing this upon but 21-22gr is the load Hodgdon recommends. Reduced a Maximum of 3%

In My Opinion this is Bad advice.
PP49 I'm Not discounting that this Load Works for YOU. Someone else's Combo Might not like that Load.

No Disrespect,I'm just Giving my Opinion..My Opinion is worth EXACTLY what people have paid for it...Nothing

'Nitro

 

[Clark]

"Speer 11" 1987 shows for 38 sp +P 158 gr 9.6 gr H110 starting load.
"Speer 11" 1987 shows for 357 mag 158 gr 17.8 gr H110 max load.


I have had H110 squib loads push the bullet out of the cylinder and half way into the forcing cone jamming the gun.

I have then drastically reduced the H110 load, but did better crimping, and it fired reliably.

 

[paperpuncher49]

Nitro,

Allow me to address your concerns:

You said: I dont know what your Basing this upon but 21-22gr is the load Hodgdon recommends. Reduced a Maximum of 3%

BASED UPON APPROXIMATELY 35 YEARS OF RELAODING EXPERIENCE WITH THE .357 MAGNUM.

You said: In My Opinion this is Bad advice.

EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. THE QUESTION WAS ASKED "WHAT IS A SAFE STARTING LOAD?" HAD I STATED 50 GRAINS, OR EVEN 28, THAT WOULD HAVE NOT BEEN SAFE.

You said: PP49 I'm Not discounting that this Load Works for YOU. Someone else's Combo Might not like that Load.

IT NOT ONLY WORKS FOR ME, I HAVE SEVERAL ACQUAINTANCES WHO USE IT IN A WIDE VARIETY OF FIREARMS. AS HAS BEEN STATED IN THIS THREAD, FIRM CRIMPING IS THE KEY. AND I WAS NOT SUGGESTING THIS OR ANY LOAD WOULD WORK WELL IN A SPECIFIC FIREARM. AGAIN, THE ORIGINAL QUESTION REQUESTED A SAFE STARTING LOAD.

You said: No Disrespect,I'm just Giving my Opinion..My Opinion is worth EXACTLY what people have paid for it...Nothing

I DO NOT CONSIDER YOUR RERSPONSE DISRESPECTFUL BY ANY MEANS. BUT WHAT IS STATED BY MANUFACTURERS IS SOMETIMES LAWYER DRIVEN. I LOAD SPEER 100 GRAIN PLINKERS ATOP 8 GRAINS IN THE .30-30 FOR "FUN SHOOTING." I DOUBT YO WOULD FIND THAT LOAD IN ANY MANUAL OR ON ANY WEBSITE BUT IT WORKS AND PROVIDES .22 LR VELOCITIES. SO NO OFFENSE TAKEN.

PP49

 

[Walkalong]

AA #9 for max loads if you are worried about W296/H110 burning properly. True Blue for close to max loads.

Speer #13 does not list loads for W296 or H110 for 125 Gr bullets. It does list loads with H110 for anything heavier than 125 Gr.

I would use AA #9, Enforcer, or N110 myself, but if you want to use H110, use Hodgdons starting load and a good heavy roll crimp.

True Blue will get some impressive velocities with out so much flash and bang, unless that is what you want of course. It will not match W296/H110 in velocity, naturally, but if the most velocity is what you are after, go with W296/H110.

 

[Crazy4nitro]

PP49,
Fair Enough.

I would Also bet that 18gr dont leave Semi-Flat Primers, as I can attest that 21.5 Does.

'Nitro

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Left out in this conversation is Lil'Gun. I found Lil'Gun works extremely well and will provide top velocities especially with heavy bullets in a .357 Magnum round. According to Hodgdon it will do so with lower pressures too.

 

[Clark]

As much as I am an adversary of Denton Bramwell advocating absolute pressure measurements to work up loads for bolt action rifles, Ken Oehler's products have allowed consumers to compare H110/W296 pressures. I have copied and posted those at THR, and will again:


What does it all mean?
LIL'GUN does not deliver great pressure savings over H110, and H110 smells better.

 

[TheEngineer]

Thank you all for the quality replies!

I keep a bore-sized wood dowel in my range bag, but I've never had cause to suspect I had a squib load. I figure I should be listening for changes in the report, feeling for changes in felt recoil, and keeping track of holes on my target if I'm at the range, but just how obvious will it be if I do have a squib (before I try sending another bullet downrange)?