410 slug - ever do that ?

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oldfool

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oddball question
here vs shotgun sub-forum, since 410/45s seem to be a currently popular theme

anybody ever actually ever shoot 410 slugs ??
I just happen to have a fondness for 410s, own several, couple of singles, an O/U and a pump - wabbit guns, not Grizz guns

but I am just not into 45/410 handguns
still.. many are, it seems
I would think a 410 slug out of one of those would have some merits vs buckshot, ought to make a pretty serious mess out of a watermelon at close range, real tight "pattern" you know
but I do not recall anybody ever saying they been there, done that

for that matter, I don't ever recall shooting a slug out of any of my 410 long guns
did used to drop a 5-pack in coat pocket, hunting tree rats whilst pre-season scouting bambi

only twice ever ejected shotshells to load up slugs, but never did pull the trigger on one
once in deer woods, mebbe-pig-noise nearby
once walking back along a steep bank looking for my 17 foot canoe, and first found Mr 17 foot gator not far from
(mighty glad it was a steep bank that day, and set a new world speed record for canoe paddling after I got my rear parked back in it about 25 yards upstream)
not that I would trust 410 slug on Mr Piggie or Mr Gator, but it probably beats a skinny #6 shotshell
still have that same 5-pak of 410 slugs somewhere in ammo box, probably 20 year old stuff now

anyway... just curious
anybody here done that, handgun or long gun ?

ain't no Grizz killer for certain, but a 410 slug out of a long gun at short range ought leave a pretty serious impression on less than large dangerous game, I would suppose
would probably make a real mess out of 'ol possum
 
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The problem with 410 slugs is that they are only 85-100 grains. Very light for 41 caliber, hence low penetration.
 
This is certain to start a fire storm of responses,..but there's been many a deer dropped with 410 slug's over the years,...and admittedly a lot of them lost. It's probably not the best slug round you could use,...but,....as always,..with the right placement,..it will get it done. I have a few 410's,..and yes,..I have taken game from squirrel to deer with one.
 
I was not advocating nor recommending, just wondering
lots of 410 guns around, 410 slugs been around "forever", love affairs w/ 410 "buckshot" seem to ebb and wane every time 45/410 revolvers and/or derringer notions get recycled yet again... and every now and then some gun maker recycles a "home defender" pumper shottie 410
just never heard anybody say they ran slugs through them, seems like more folks would have "just because"

that 5-pak I have is real likely to last me yet another 20 years, if I last that long
or mebbe I ought bust 'em next range trip, just to burn 'em up

they have apparently been "legal" for deer in some places at some times (still are some places I guess), but as the fellow above noted, not heavily endorsed for such things, not a trendy thing

what very little I had googled briefly do seem to suggest that some of the buckshot loads are actually heavier than most slug loads, which surprised me just a little bit, not having given it any serious thought

OP is NOT intended to be some Judge(mental) woobie war either
just idle curiosity about a "round" that has been around for so very long, but not much mentioned

apparently there have been some 410 slugs that go more like 150-160 grain weight, I guess (google again)
w/ ~ 40 cal diameters, but it's not something I plan on ordering any of for myself
 
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Some time ago I took a bunch of books and catalogues to the range and tested penetration for several different calibers/styles/barrel lengths.

Now, before you get started, I never claimed any of this was terribly scientific or exact. This is just Yours Truly ballparking some quantities.

Well, last year I picked up a Rossi single-shot break-open rifle/shotgun combo in .22/.410 (22" bbl)for me mum for the post hurricane zombies like what we saw in N'awlins a few moons ago.

Piffle! said many to the notion of a .410. Piffle and Pshaw! Why, those little things will only give the goblin a minor skin rash and a cranky demeanor! You might was well tickle him with something!

Nevertheless, I decided to perforate some more catalogues with some .410 slugs and compare the aforementioned 9x19, 9x18, .38 Special, .22LR, and 7.62x39 mm I had already tested. I stopped by the local gun store and glommed onto a 5-box each of Winchester Super-X in 2.5" and 3" lengths. All of them were hollow point rifled slugs. Both advertised a muzzle velocity of about 1800 feet/second.

Now, those who knocked the .410 slug claimed that the light slug (1/5th of an ounce and 1/4th of an ounce for the 2.5" and 3" lengths, respectively) were so light that the round would lack penetration. So, I did the conversions. The lighter slug weighs about 90 grains, about the same heft as a .380 bullet. The heavier comes in at around 110 grains, a heavy Makarov or light 9 Parabellum round. Certaily, the skeptics said, a .410 slug couldn't do any better than a simple .40 S&W round.


So, I set up my targets at 25 yards (closest allowed). For the 2.5" shells I simply hung up a 1160 page catalogue. For the 3" shells I taped two back to back just in case the skeptics were wrong. Glad I did.
Started with the 2.5" shells:
BAM! WHACK! Confetti cloud!!!

What the...? Maybe I just tagged the edge. Nope, I pulled out the binoculars just to make sure my eyes weren't playing tricks on me. I hit that thing absolutely dead center. It was a good shot. Let's try that again.

BAM! WHACK! Confetti cloud!!!

Twice more with the same results. All four rounds passed all the way through. It also blew a big piece of the target stand backing off. Pic below of the retrieved catalogue.

410xf.jpg

By uncledoj at 2010-03-27
When I fired the 3" shells at the doubled up catalogues they passed through an average of 1600 pages before stopping. The "wound" was broad and the remains of the rounds were various-sized pebbly bits of slug.

Compare that to ballpark averages:
9x19mm FMJ= 900 pages
9x19mm 115 grain HP = 500 pages
.38Spl 125g +P HP=500 pages
9x18 95g FMJ = 700 pages
.32ACP 71 grain FMJ = 620 pages
.22LR 36g HP from 6" bbl= 450 pages
.22LR 36g HP from 16" bbl= 950 pages
7.62x39mm = tore through three catalogues like Obamacare and kept right on going.

My nonscientific test would lead me not to scoff at a smallbore shotgun, even a .410 .
 
I've shot a variety of loads through my Cobray/Leinad double barreled .410/.45 LC derringer - the barrel extends less than 1.5" past the end of the 3" chamber. The 3" slugs versus 3 sheets of 5/8" plywood either stopped in the 3rd sheet or made it through. The recoil wasn't as stout as the Federal OOO buck shells, which mostly made it into the 3rd sheet as well.

I did just buy the data sheet from BPI for "rifle loads" in .410... They have loads for 1, 2, and 3 OOO buck pellets that exceed 2,700 fps with a single pellet! Of course that's in a regular shotgun-length barrel, but I'd still love to try some. If only I had a .410 loader.
 
Apple a Day said:
When I fired the 3" shells at the doubled up catalogues they passed through an average of 1600 pages before stopping. The "wound" was broad and the remains of the rounds were various-sized pebbly bits of slug.

Compare that to ballpark averages:
9x19mm FMJ= 900 pages
9x19mm 115 grain HP = 500 pages
.38Spl 125g +P HP=500 pages
9x18 95g FMJ = 700 pages
.32ACP 71 grain FMJ = 620 pages
.22LR 36g HP from 6" bbl= 450 pages
.22LR 36g HP from 16" bbl= 950 pages
7.62x39mm = tore through three catalogues like Obamacare and kept right on going.

My nonscientific test would lead me not to scoff at a smallbore shotgun, even a .410 .
Click to expand...

Well, yes, even with the light for caliber slug, a 410 slug fired from a 22" barrel is more powerful than middle of the road rounds fired from a pistol. How many of the pistol rounds that the 410 beat would you recommend for deer? How did it compare to a middle of the road rifle round (7.62x39)? Not well.
 
There must be a reason that most states do not allow the .410 slug for deer. That said, in Il, the 30 Carbine out of a handgun is legal. About same bullet weight. About same velocity. Neither one, in my opinion, a deer caliber.

I have a 45/410 Contender. And a Judge. The Contender won't group CorBon deer legal 45 colts in a washbasin at fifty yards nor will either do any better with slugs. My 10" 45 Colt barrel (not a combo) will group under 2" with deer legal loads.

I've shot 410 slugs and the only thing decisively killed was a groundhog. Won't shoot them at deer.

Sorry for rambling.
 
interesting article Lee, thanks
the sort of "interesting stuff" I had in mind when I asked the oddball question
ain't looking to give up my 30-30 for bambi, nor my 357 for "at home"
but whatever the 410 slug ain't, it ain't no paintball either
(not in a proper match up with firearm)
 
How many of the pistol rounds that the 410 beat would you recommend for deer?
Click to expand...
Uhmmmmm... none? Where in the entirety of my post did I mention anything about deer?
Wait, let me read my entire post one more time
...
..
.
Nope. Nothin'. Not a single word did I type about hunting deer either with handgun rounds or with a .410 slug. I mentioned zombies. I mentioned goblins. Not a single deer, though. On an aside, my dear ol' da' used to hunt them with a bolt action .410 loaded with slugs he bought as a kid from Sears and Roebuck but that was before I was hatched so I have no data on it. Since I have no experience shooting deer with a .410 I woundn't post an authoritative opinion about it. I DO have experience shooting catalogues with a .410 so I DID post about it. See how that works?
Perhaps, since the OP began this thread asking for experiences from people who've actually fired slugs from a .410 shotgun you'd like to share some of your own experience on the matter.
 
I love mt little .410 long guns and carry them in the woods pretty often. Ive never shot deer with em but several medium hogs are now taking the long nap because of them. You do not get a lot of penetration because the soft lead slugs tend to splatter on thick hides and bones i would not take the chance on deer. Ive also dropped hogs in their tracks with a .22lr so im not sure it is much of an indicator but zombies are thin skinned in comrarison.
 
I've shot slugs through my .410. Never did any hunting with them, just target shooting. I was just blowing them off for some fun, didn't sit down and try for any real accuracy, so I can't attest to that. They're fun rounds, and I definitely wouldn't underrate them. Pulverised pretty much any thing they came in contact with. (Which was mostly dirt.:eek:) If I could sneak up to about 25-35yds away from a deer, and knew the slug was going to hit where I wanted it to, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it. Other people probably have different opinions.
I would go out and see what kind of accuracy I could get, but that would be hard at the moment because I sold my .410. :rolleyes: Have fun shootin'.
Matthew
 
Apple a Day said:
Uhmmmmm... none? Where in the entirety of my post did I mention anything about deer?
Wait, let me read my entire post one more time
...
..
.
Nope. Nothin'. Not a single word did I type about hunting deer either with handgun rounds or with a .410 slug. I mentioned zombies. I mentioned goblins. Not a single deer, though. On an aside, my dear ol' da' used to hunt them with a bolt action .410 loaded with slugs he bought as a kid from Sears and Roebuck but that was before I was hatched so I have no data on it. Since I have no experience shooting deer with a .410 I woundn't post an authoritative opinion about it. I DO have experience shooting catalogues with a .410 so I DID post about it. See how that works?
Click to expand...

Indeed, you never once mentioned deer. I just wanted to put the test in perspective, that's all. No criticism was intended. :)

P.S. While you didn't mention deer, the OP did. In fact, the point of his thread is if a 410 slug is enough for big game.
 
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now play nice, kids
"While you didn't mention deer, the OP did."

well, no, not really, I didn't, no more than some mentioned zombies anyway
"hunting tree rats whilst pre-season scouting bambi"
others noted (not unexpected), they are sometimes/someplaces legal for deer, and some have used them for that

"In fact, the point of his thread is if a 410 slug is enough for big game."
no, not my intent at all
not intended to be yet another what caliber for Grizz, nor what caliber for deer thread, nor yet another best for home defense
"just idle curiosity about a 'round' that has been around for so very long, but not much mentioned" despite the recycled popularity of 45/410 handguns and such

Lee and Sam presented some real interesting info, showing that some folks have taken the 410 slug concept pretty seriously
Apple put up some interesting pics & info, surprised me a bit
a very few guys said they have used them on some animals, within limitations
but, as suspected, despite the long history of the 410 slug, they apparently are not oft used by many
might just be, that like me, some have a 20 year old 5 pak around still unfired

thanks to all, for informative feedback on something that not often mentioned
be well, keep on shootin', and keep on smilin'
 
I don't own a .410 but there is something about it that I like. Maybe it’s the underdog status it has.

Anyhow the issue of a .410 slug out of a long gun is an interesting one to debate.

I read an article a while back about hunting deer with a .410 lever gun. The guy who wrote it hunted whitetails with his. The conclusion of the article was it was a 50(ish) yard gun for white tails.

Seems reasonable. (And explains why most people wouldn't use a .410 for deer.)

While reading the posts above it stuck me that the .41 cal 90 to 115 grain slug is similar to what the Kentucky rifles from the 1800's shot. From what I'v read, those rifles were also 50ish yard guns for larger game such as deer during those days. (Though I'm sure some of the hunters of that time could reach out further if they wanted too. It also helped they could customize their load for the hunting situation. Just put a few more grains of powder in for deer.) Of course during the time of smooth bore weapons, an accurate shot out to 50 or 100 yards was pretty impressive.

Anyhow I found the rough comparison between the two weapons interesting. I guess it’s one of the reasons people of that day were good woodsmen; they had to get close to insure a kill.
 
Well, comparing a .410 shotgun slug to a .45LC, the .45LC is a lot more powerful. Keep in mind that shotguns are low-pressure guns, and even higher-end pistol rounds far exceed the maximum shotgun pressures. The end result of all this is that a .410 slug is inferior to a .45LC. You'd be far better off with a lightweight lever-action .45LC or .44 Magnum rifle.

In all honesty, the .410 is nearing obsolescence, whether die-hards want to admit it or not. The 28-gauge is making a comeback, and modern technology has allowed for lighter guns with better recoil management. Some people like them, but there's better choices available regardless of your need. If you enjoy them, more power to you.
 
I would say that these guys take the idea about to the very end of its logical extremes:

http://hoeningbigboresouth.com/Big 410 Ballistics.html

One of their loads is a 275 gr. slug going 1249 fps! That's within 25 grains of the hottest .44 mag load I've put through my 629.
Click to expand...

WHOOPS. I need to read more carefully. That's a 375 gr. slug going 1500 fps!

Guess I'll be taking my .44 Mag comments and "stickin' em."

And it makes this comment ...
Well, comparing a .410 shotgun slug to a .45LC, the .45LC is a lot more powerful.
Click to expand...
... also untrue. This heavy, uncrimped .410 load is beating the hottest .454 Casulls.

Considering the slightly better sectional density, I'd say that would make a very good black bear load, and would cleanly take almost any north American game out to reasonable yardage.

This is getting close to old Teddy Roosevelt's .405 Winchester African safari gun.
 
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thunder173 said:
This is certain to start a fire storm of responses,..but there's been many a deer dropped with 410 slug's over the years,...and admittedly a lot of them lost. It's probably not the best slug round you could use,...but,....as always,..with the right placement,..it will get it done. I have a few 410's,..and yes,..I have taken game from squirrel to deer with one.
Click to expand...
Same here, Growing up in Eastern Arkansas I have known several Women and some older Men who have killed deer for years with a pump or Single shot 410 Slugs.
 
Anybody have a sudden urge to go out and get a .410 lever gun? I have this beauty that was passed down........I spent close to $300 getting it restored, and it's one of my favorite guns. I gotta go find a Marlin 1895 .410.

DSC00826.jpg
 
When it comes to hunting. I tend to agree with Sam1911. The 410 ga slug from a shotgun should be plenty for whitetail deer at woods shooting ranges. That assumes you can hit them in the vitals. I certainly don't advocate using slugs from the Taurus Judge or 45/10 revolver for deer.
 
I tend to agree with Sam1911. The 410 ga slug from a shotgun should be plenty ...
Click to expand...
Well, to be fair, I'm looking at some VERY unusual slug loads. A "normal" .410 slug load is a pathetic little thing, indeed.

Anybody have a sudden urge to go out and get...
Click to expand...
Actually, I have the urge to get one of HBBS's Encore or Contender .410 barrels and play with their heavy uncrimped 375 gr. load! Sort of a mini version of this old favorite: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=178655
 
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