416 Rem recoil opinions?

[mr.trooper]

I realize that recoil is subjective, but I'm looking for opinions.

I have been saving money for a medium bore rifle, for big game trips I will hopefully be taking in the future. i have settled on a Winchester Model 70 in 416 Remington.

I just got back from the range, checking the zero on my 12 gauge slug gun. I fired 25 rounds of 3" Remington 'sluggers' from a bare bones 870 smooth bore. I can handle that amount of recoil well. I got 3" groups average, and have no problems with a flinch. To me, that recoil is very heavy, but still quite manageable.

The online recoil calculators say that the 416 Rem Model 70 has:

Impulse = +29%
Velocity = +15%
Free recoil = +41%

I realize that those figures are somewhat subjective... but some of those numbers are HUGE. Is the 416 really that much of a bruiser?

Compared to my 12 guage slug gun.

 

[chestnut ridge]

416

My advice would be borrow one. Then you can hunt with the rifle; and
give it back.

 

[mr.trooper]

Right. Borrow one.

I live in a one-horse town of less than 1,000 people: Should I start knocking on doors, or just head strait down to my local SCI chapter?

 

[Pete D.]

recoil

The suggestion to borrow- as difficult or impossible as it may be for you to do - is a sensible one.
You are asking for an opinion about something which you already know is subjective.....actually wildly subjective.
Based, though, on your comments about shooting the 25 shotgun slugs.....you could probably shoot the .416s without too much difficulty.
Yes, those numbers are huge. Yes, the .416s are that different than normal 12 ga. slugs.......but, remember that this is subjective.
I have a Ruger #1 chambered for the .416 Rigby - comparable recoil vis a vis the Remmie. If I bench it - rarely - I put a bag of shot between the gun and my shoulder. I don't do that with a 12 gauge shotgun.
I shoot the Rigby from field positions. When I shoot from a sitting position, if I am not properly set, the recoil will roll me on to my back. A 12 gauge won't do that. I am 6'2" and 205lbs.
Pete

 

[Hangingrock]

Having owned a 416-Rem I’ll say that it’s is an attention getter. Not being a masochist I soon realized there was no perverted pleasure to be had from the discharge. If it were I and its not I’d opt for the 375-H&H.

None the less good luck.

 

[Hizzie]

I realize that recoil is subjective, but I'm looking for opinions.

I have been saving money for a medium bore rifle, for big game trips I will hopefully be taking in the future. i have settled on a Winchester Model 70 in 416 Remington.

I just got back from the range, checking the zero on my 12 gauge slug gun. I fired 25 rounds of 3" Remington 'sluggers' from a bare bones 870 smooth bore. I can handle that amount of recoil well. I got 3" groups average, and have no problems with a flinch. To me, that recoil is very heavy, but still quite manageable.

The online recoil calculators say that the 416 Rem Model 70 has:

Impulse = +29%
Velocity = +15%
Free recoil = +41%

I realize that those figures are somewhat subjective... but some of those numbers are HUGE. Is the 416 really that much of a bruiser?

Compared to my 12 guage slug gun.

If you want the 416 get the 416. Buy a reloading set up and load reduced loads. Several places sell hard cast gas checked lead bullets in .417 diameter in the 300-400gr range. Accurate Arms 5744 is popular for reduced loads check with them for a good recipe. Eat your wheaties and build yourself up to full house loads.

 

[mr.trooper]

Thanks guys.

I realize recoil is a highly subjective feeling, that's why I'm not asking for any kind of numbers. I just figured that anyone who had shot a 416 had likely shot a 12 gauge slug, and could draw a rough comparison.

 

[SpeedAKL]

According to Chuck Hawk's recoil table a 3-inch magnum slug out of a shotgun should be fairly comparable to a .416 mag in recoil. Both are serious thumpers...

 

[bfoosh006]

I own a Ruger No. 1 in .458 Lott, 500gr bullets at 2350 fps... the recoil is managable, but fast follow up shots would be kinda tough because of the recoil. Your physical size will help absorb the recoil and lean forward ( more weight on the forward foot.. ) while you fire the rifle. Try it with your shotgun and you'll see what I mean.

Ask the same question over here...http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve.... on the "Big Bores" forum...

 

[huntershooter]

Subjectively; I find the .416s recoil not that much greater than a 3" 12ga. slug, but more instantaneous. All of the recoil is there RIGHT NOW, while the 12 ga. slug seems spread over a longer period.

 

[CraigC]

I don't have a .416 but I have an 8lb .405 with a steel buttplate and a couple of 12ga shotguns. The .405 slings a 300gr bullet at 2200-2300fps and I'd rather shoot 50rds through it than 10rds of 12ga slugs. The .416 throws a 100gr heavier bullet 200fps faster but it should be at least a pound or two heavier. I can't imagine it being worse than an ill-fitting 12ga shotgun with slugs.

 

[H&Hhunter]

The .416 Rem is very manageable BUT there are some definite techniques to shooting a heavy recoiling rifle which help absorb recoil.

Make sure it has a decent recoil pad on it and shoot it. Try to get off the bench as soon as possible and practice shooting off of a standing rest of some kind, like a tripod or a standing frame rest.

Another trick is to limit your rounds fired per setting until you build up some tolerance. The quickest way to ruin yourself on a heavier recoiling rifle is to sit at the bench and fire shot after shot.

If you've got a place to go shoot rocks or some other kind of reactive target that you can have fun with is the best way to get comfortable with a rifle. Shooting from field positions of course.

Trick number one is to grip the forend stronger than you are used to doing. That sucks up a bunch of recoil. Don't tense your shoulder, rather roll with the recoil. If you catch yourself getting the flinchies put it away for the day shoot your .22 for a bit and start over.

Any grown man or woman should be able to very effectively handle a .416 class rifle. They simply aren't all that bad.

 

[Red October]

H&H Hunter is spot-on with tips for managing the recoil. While I don't have a .416, I do have a .375H&H (Model 70 Safari Classic), a couple of .338Win Mags (Ruger 1B and Savage 116SE), and a .444 Marlin (oddly, about the most punishing of the bunch in my opinion).
The thing I tell my friends that want to shoot "the elephant gun" is exactly what he said. Hold it firmly to your shoulder, but DON'T stiffen your body. Roll with the punch (you might as well; you aren't going to stop it).

 

[jerkface11]

What kind of big game will you be hunting?

 

[Hangingrock]

The problem with as an example the 416-Rem people don’t live with the rifle. Simply meaning they don’t handle and use the rifle as much as they would a lesser caliber. I’ve witnessed guides that more or less roll their eyes when the client mentions as an example they have or are going to use a 4XX magnum.

The usual question is do you shoot it regularly and what game animals have you taken with it. This is followed by lets see how it shoots which means I want to see how you handle it. If one can place their shot on demand then no problem otherwise it’s problematic.

 

[H&Hhunter]

The problem with as an example the 416-Rem people don’t live with the rifle. Simply meaning they don’t handle and use the rifle as much as they would a lesser caliber.

Hangingrock

And the simple cure is to live with it for a while before hunting. That's what I do with my heavy rifles. I've killed hundreds of hogs, jack rabbits, rocks and assorted other targets of opportunity with various heavy's. Because you are right the only way to get happy with one is to use it in field conditions. And once again a .416 is not that big a of deal to learn to use. Once you get over into the big .45's and larger it becomes more of an issue.

 

[jiminhobesound]

Good advice on gripping the forend tightly. Recoil tables usually give the ft. lbs of recoil, a one foot drop of a certain weight, and a velocity of recoil. Roll with the recoil. I would look into recoil reduction, stock mounted, devices and is the barrel on this gun ported?

 

[H&Hhunter]

I would look into recoil reduction, stock mounted, devices and is the barrel on this gun ported?

Really not necessary on a .416. Especially not porting. There is no way to alienate your crew faster than showing up in Africa with a ported rifle. The noise level is damaging to those around you who won't be wearing hearing protection.

 

[mr.trooper]

Thanks for the excellent advice everyone!

H&H hunter, as always, your advice concerning heavy rifles and big game hunting is indispensable.

I have a guided hog hunt lined up for the end of next month. If that goes well, I will be able to guide myself in the future as the location is not too far. I will also likely try a bear hunt sometime in the future. An African plains game hunt is a distant dream at the moment. I realize such a rifle is not at all needed for such game, but there is also an element of fulfilling a childhood dream.

In the mean time I do have a friend with enough land to practice, and the DNR operates a static shooting range about two miles from my home.

I do some reloading, so I do have the option of working up loads as well.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I realize recoil is a highly subjective feeling, that's why I'm not asking for any kind of numbers. I just figured that anyone who had shot a 416 had likely shot a 12 gauge slug, and could draw a rough comparison.

Not a .416 Rem mag, but a .416 Rigby, which is ballitically identical (though it operates at lower pressures than the Rem mag). Both are launching 400 gr. pills at about 2,400 FPS.

Remington advertises the "slugger" at 1,760 FPS with a 1 ounce (437.5 gr.) slug.

In a gun of the same weight, the .416 is gonna belt you harder. But you're unlikely to find a .416 rifle weighing in at the scant 6-1/2 pounds of an 870. Most "safari" type rifles are 9 pounds or more.

3" magnum slugs out of a field shotgun are very close to the recoil of a .416 out of a 9-10 lb rifle, IMO. Calculators put them at 40-45 ft/lbs and ~20 FPS for the 12 ga in a 6.5# gun, 50-55 ft/lbs at ~19 FPS for the 400 gr. .416 load in a 9.5 pound gun.

I don't think you'll find the recoil intolerable. Ammo cost is another story, though........

 

[H&Hhunter]

I realize such a rifle is not at all needed for such game, but there is also an element of fulfilling a childhood dream.

And that is why you should buy one and shoot the pee out of it! People try to tell me all the time that a .470 NE is to much gun for jack rabbits and hogs. It ain't about the perfect fit it's about having fun and developing skills with your rifle. After all why shoot and hunt if you aren't having fun?

Heavy rifles work on these..


They work on these...218 yard shot BTW


Just like they work on these.


And these.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I knew I had a picture of it here somewhere....

Here is picture of my brother with his .416 rem and a hog he smoked with it down in Tx.



See there the .416 will kill hogs too!!

 

[mr.trooper]

Haha! Very nice!

That double of yours is a beautiful weapon. It is from reading fairy tales of Africa as a boy that I formed one of my most enduring life goals - to own a double gun whose barrels read "Nitro Express".

The Sabatti rifles offered by Cabelas are sorely tempting. $5,000 for their 92 'deluxe' in 450/400 sounds like a distant light at the end of the tunnel. I have done a good deal of online research into them on many internet forums, and the only dissenters seem to be the same two guys who visit every thread and poop on them, despite never having fired one or even knowing anyone who owns one. What do you think of them as a working mans double? I know better than to compare them to a Merkel, K-gun, or higher.

In the intervening time, a production "magazine gun" like the Winchester will suffice.

 

[H&Hhunter]

trooper,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the Sabatti is having real world issues. I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. They have huge QC issues, customer service issues and accuracy issues that make them a total no go. My advice is do not waste your money on a Sabatti.

I know the price is tempting but you won't be happy with a rifle that isn't accurate enough to use for hunting.

I am trying to reference several links explaining the issues with these Sabatti doubles but the site won't open at the moment. I'll try again later.

 

[Pete D.]

Trick number one is to grip the forend stronger than you are used to doing.

Just came back to this thread.
That piece of advice is the single most effective thing that a shooter can do to make a heavy rifle controllable and fun. When I shoot either my .375 or my .416, my left hand is firmly grasping the fore end and part of the barrel.
The second great piece of advice was about the firm set against the shoulder.
Standing weight forward .....YouTube has video after video of people who don't know how to shoot a heavy gun. Invariably, they have their weight on the rear foot and the gun mounted improperly.
Look at videos for ".577 Tyrannosaur" - not one of those people knows how to hold the gun - and they get beat up.
Pete