44 Mag Revolver or 357 Mag Rifle Vs. Grizzly

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Just about any firearm will kill a Grizzly. I've read authenticated reports about them being killed with a .22 mag, a 9mm, .357 mag's, and .44 mags, 30-30's, .223 rem and so on. No caliber will guarantee victory and sometimes the bear wins. These defense situations and the guns used were what the person had at the time and certainly not a recommendation to use when hunting the big bear for sport with a clean quick kill in mind.

If the bear has decided to make you its dinner then use whatever you have handy to fight it because your life is on the line and the only choice you have is to fight or to die. Shoot it as many times as you can and then some, preferably in a lethal area. Shoot and keep shooting, you are not hunting, it is hunting you, so many holes in the animal makes for a more likely kill.
 
You guys have it all wrong. The .25 auto is the best anti-bear gun on the planet, by far. Don't need anything longer than a 2" barrel for lethal, grizzly splattering velocities.

:D
But seeing as how this is the revolver forum, I'll stay on track and recommend the venerable .32 S&W, from the Union Automatic Revolver of 1909.

Although, I think part of the fascination with bears is the fact that they are one of the largest land mammals in North America, and could easily kill a grown man. If a gun can take down an enraged grizzly, it can drop anything in North America.
 
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Your odds of "stopping" a Grizz with either are pretty poor. They way Sam said it is perfect. When/if that charge ever occurs, hopefully you already know whether you are a "Fight" or "Flight" person. Bears are FAST. Really fast. And you have no chance of out running them. But is it a real charge or a mock charge? Mock charges can get close. Closer than you want. Your biggest problem will be shooting a bear thinking it's charging you and then really having it charge. Now you have a wounded bear coming after you.

Let me give you some really honest advice. If you're in bear country, either sell the 357 and buy, or keep it and also buy, a lever 45-70. I've been in the situation of "Do I have enough gun and no way to escape". Let me tell you something.....it sucks. So get something that can't be disputed as "enough" gun. Don't get me wrong, I love the 357. However, I'm not placing my safety on that round in bear country. I take my 7.5 44 mag and my 1895 45-70. Even then I know that shot placement is vitally (pun intended) important.
 
I have killed Brown Bears with a 454. Two were one shot kills and the third took a second, but if the Bear was charging and I had only seconds to act I am not sure of the outcome. The 454 is scope mounted so it is really not good for up close and personal. At that time I also carried a 44mag but I am not sure how good it would have done on a fully enraged bear. Since I hunt only with a revolver I would now carry a Freedom Arms 43/4 or 6" for back up. A rifle with open sights would be the best. But what ever is carried, practice. When your life is on the line and adrenalin flowing it is a different world.
 
The only thing I can add to the wise advice of knowing what you're doing when out in bear country is this:

My cousin works as a fishing guide in Alaska. He much prefers a shotgun for grizzlies (as do many people), but he found a shotgun was just too cumbersome to handle in the field when you're doing other tasks. Sure, you can sling it, but few slings really let you keep the same freedom of movement. I imagine the carbine would have the same issues. He went with a pistol, and has used it, though he got by with a warning shot. YMMV.
 
You are looking at the problem from the wrong angle. Which are you more likely to carry and have available 100% of the time? Your proficiency matters little if your rifle is sitting in a tent or stuffed away somewhere.

This is what I carry in the woods when in known bear territory. It gives me peace of mind knowing I will at least have a fighting chance. I know it will be on my hip and I know I have twelve chances to save my or someone else's life, while hoping I never get the opportunity to test my luck.

p1423643648-5.jpg
 
The best weapon for bear is Bear Spray.

From what I understand, physical damage to bear - unless it involves their CNS - results in a shot of adrenaline and causes them to ignore pain and become extremely aggressive. Bear spray makes whatever they are going after "no longer worth the trouble", so they will often back down. It doesn't cause enough pain to cause them to get aggressive.
 
Either one will kill a bear. But, will it do it fast enough? Why not a .44 marlin carbine? I would go with a 12ga pump with heavy slugs. You are actually more likely to make the bear more aggressive with your pop gun calibers. There is always the lucky bullet theory, but I am not the gambler I used to be.
 
Previous data SEEMS to suggest that a larger round driven at lower velocities will generally out-penetrate a smaller, faster round.

Therefore, your 44 magnum handgun would be better suited to stopping a charge from large and dangerous game such as a Grizzly.

However, you need to be able to hit what you are shooting at. I couldn't hit the side of a barn with my previously owned super redhawk, but I can punch out the bullseye all day long with my 10mm Elite Match.

Why not a lever-action 44 mag? The heaviest loads I have for the 357 are some 180 grain leadcast...but I'd rather have some 300 grain 44 mag leadcast if I was shooting at a charging Grizzly. You can drive 300 grain loads upwards of 1800 fps out of a 18-20 in barrel. It will get the job done.
 
If you're a decent shot with it, a handgun will always be less cumbersum to tote along on a hike or whatever activity one is partaking in. The Ruger Redhawk is also a damn fine weapon and very accurate in my experiance with the the 5.5" .44 I used to own.

For bear defense what is needed is a heavy bullet that will penetrate deeply to break bones and reach vital organs. Nuclear level loads and high velocity are NOT needed if you use heavy for caliber bullets of very stout construction and good design. A handgun using such a load can attain some incredible levels of penetration, as can be seen in the results of the Linebaugh Seminar penetration tests:

http://www.handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp?year=all

The very best bullets for penetration with handgun calibers are the Belt Mountain "Punch" bullets which are brass bullets with a lead core that will give the maximum penetration of anything you can fire from a handgun. If you're a handloader you can buy yhe bullets seperately, if not Grizzly offers loaded ammo.

http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=44mag

The listed specs for the .44 loads are 1100 fps for the "short" load or 1200 fps for the "long" load that is specially made for long cylindered guns such as the Redhawk. A little pricy, but considering how well they work, a bargain IMHO. A box or two would be a lifetime supply as you could practice with cheaper standard ammo. If/when I finaly get to Alaska, that's the ammo that'll be in my SRH Alaskan.
 
The best weapon for bear is Bear Spray.
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I've heard this quite often.

Growing up in the NW corner of Montana (Troy, Libby, Yaak) Grizzly encounters were a definite possibility.

I packed my Redhawk along with a can of Udap pepper spray for years. Ran into several black bears but never a grizzly (not including Glacier Park). On one of our glacier lake hikes my buddy and I decided we should give this pepper spray a test run since we were trusting it as a bear deterrent.

Well..... I'm not saying it's worthless, but make sure the nice little teddy bear stands downwind. We fired it into a slight breeze and we were totally defenseless.

I'm not saying to leave your pepper spray at home, but just take into account that it's subject to the elements.
 
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I'm over here in Central Montana. I carry both a .44 and bear spray when I'm out and about in the mountains, and have never actually had to use either on a bear. With any luck I won't have to in the future, either. I still carry both just in case.

I have crossed paths with many black bears (most of them in N California) and a couple of grizzlies over the years, but none of them showed any inclination to attack me. In fact most of the time they totally ignored me.

The only reason I carry a .44 revolver instead of a shotgun or rifle is because it's easier to pack around. A revolver in the hand is better than a long gun in the truck.........
 
I don't know a scientific or engineering answer to your question and will go with my gut. I would choose the 44 magnum revolver due to larger bullet diameter and quicker to yield in a high pressure situation; probably a 5.5" with the Redhawk in a chest rig. I wouldn't depend on a 44 magnum to stop a charging grizzly in his tracks without luck.

In the Eastern US, the Marlin 1894 in 357 mag is not a bad choice for black bears (and general protection/food gathering), but black bears seldom attack anyway. In the west, if you are thinking a short powerful cartridge in a rifle, I'd go with the 44 mag version of the 1894 and then pack both the revolver and rifle. But honestly, I would tend to lean toward a larger caliber gun if large bears are my concern. The thing is.... bears would not be my main concern and I would probably go with a versatile tried and true caliber rifle.

Get some pepper spray.

The only way to learn is to ask questions and shoot. Welcome to the forum and ask anything you like.
 
The only reason I carry a .44 revolver instead of a shotgun or rifle is because it's easier to pack around. A revolver in the hand is better than a long gun in the truck.........
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I agree.

Growing up in the NW corner of Montana (Troy, Libby, Yaak) Grizzly encounters were a definite possibility.
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Working for my dad as a sawyer for many years we encountered all sorts of wildlife, but to tell you the truth the Moose were more aggressive than the bears. They have a stubborn streak and a boldness that's often overlooked due to their lack of claws and sharp teeth. Sometimes they would plant themselves in the middle of the road ready to take on my dad's f-150.
 
skidder said:
I agree.



Working for my dad as a sawyer for many years we encountered all sorts of wildlife, but to tell you the truth the Moose were more aggressive than the bears. They have a stubborn streak and a boldness that's often overlooked due to their lack of claws and sharp teeth. Sometimes they would plant themselves in the middle of the road ready to take on my dad's f-150.
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Hey Skidder, do you want to test bear spray on a cow with a calf and get back to us on the results LOL

Did you make it to the Missoula show, heard it was crowded and hot.
 
Mind you, I've never been in Grizzly country yet, but I've thought about this issue when my BIL was looking to move to Alaska. We bought him a .44 mag revolver for his birthday that year.

Some recommend rifles as being the best for taking down bear, which is probably true. However, if you're being charged, you may only get one shot at the bear with a rifle, but once he's on you, a handgun would be far more maneuverable and have quicker follow-up shots than the typical .30-06.

The other aspects to this are just as important. Such as study up on grizzly behavior and capabilities. They are VERY capable animals with great sense of smell and speed, not to mention their power, claws and teeth.

My BIL never did move to Alaska, things fell through for him. He was able to visit with some friends to do some hiking and kayaking though. Before he left, he was on the fence about whether to take his .45 acp or his .44 mag. I told him to compare the bullet weights and velocities. He opted for the .44.

For the black bear and two-legged predator regions that I go hiking in, .357 mag suits me just fine, but for grizzly or brown bear country, I'd definitely step up to .44 mag.
 
Nice country Skidder I always enjoy it up there.

A 4” 629 with a cylinder full of 280 gr. Beartooth WFNGC loaded up to 1150 fps was on my hip while recently picking Huckleberry’s up north. The short barreled 12 gauge semi loaded with Brenneke slugs is much too cumbersome to tote up the hill with a bucket of berry’s and was left in the truck as usual.

When in the area we always visit the Tavern over on the Yaak for a beer and a burger, it’s a family tradition, along with Golden Grizzly Ale.

If I were to bother with a long gun for bear protection, the short 12 gauge is handy as would be a short lever carbine in something along the lines of a 45-70, I wouldn’t bother with a .357/.44 mag carbine unless it was east of the Mississippi and even then personally I’d go with a rifle caliber, especially if Moose were around. I saw at least 25 Moose this year and only 1 bear, but Bear and Moose seem to go together.

I generally have bear spray nearby but I don’t have a lot of faith in it, wind being just one reason. I carried it quite a bit on Moose infected trout streams this year, but the 4” 629 is ALWAYS on my hip.

I have to wonder how well that UDAP would work on a ticked off cow with a calf?
 
I don't trust any handgun bullet. Certainly both polar and grizzlies were killed with handgun bullets that would be derided as inadequate, but I don't want to be the guy who finds out whether it works for me or not. Give me a 45-70.
 
Hey Skidder, do you want to test bear spray on a cow with a calf and get back to us on the results LOL

Did you make it to the Missoula show, heard it was crowded and hot.
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No, but I did make it to the show in Whitehall yesterday. The only thing I left with was a Pach grip for my Security Six. Prices getting better, but they're still on the high side.
When in the area we always visit the Tavern over on the Yaak for a beer and a burger, it’s a family tradition, along with Golden Grizzly Ale.
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Oh, ya.... in my younger days... I can recall trying to complete the "Yaak attack". The goal was to start at the bars in Troy, head through the Yaak, and end at the Pastime in Libby. There you could pick up a shirt that read, "I survived the Yaak attack". Not anymore, I'm a burger and 1 or 2 beer guy now ;). Never again will I ever attempt the "Yaak attack":uhoh:.
 
I am of the opinion that the first line of defense against bears should be pepper spray. The percentages are for the pepper spray. You shoot an angry bear you have elevated the event and whether or not you survive is more complicated than what caliber or gun you carry.

A 44 Magnum handgun is more portable than a 357 lever action. I would always prefer having a rifle as my hit probability with a rifle is much better than with a handgun, but I am of the opinion that a 357, even in a rifle, does not give sufficient penetration .

These studies are of interest:

Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska, 2006, Tom Smith Journal of Wildlife Management
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf

In 92% of close range encounters with brown bears, spray stopped undesirable behavior in which the bear was engaged.

All bear inflicted injuries involved brown bears and were relatively minor.

Efficacy of Firearms for Bear Deterrence in Alaska, Tom Smith
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf

We found no significant difference in success rates (i.e., success being when the bear was stopped in its aggressive behavior) associate with long guns (76%) and handguns (84%). Moreover, firearm bearers suffered the same injury rates in close encounters with bears whether they used their firearms or not. ..

Although firearms have failed to protect some users, they are the only deterrent that can lethally stop an aggressive bear.

27% percent of the time people had lack of time to respond to the bear. :uhoh:

I don’t consider this 1983 study of much value as the test medium was silt and sawdust in a wooden box. They did determine that some rounds penetrate further than others but they did not validate that silt and sawdust act the same as tissue and they made the unproven assumption that the rounds that penetrated best in silt and sawdust were the best bear rounds. While I believe that a big drain hole is better than a small drain hole, I do not believe this study determined what is the “best cartridge” against bears.


Safety in Bear Country: Protective measures and Bullet performance .

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152
 
A heavy revolver with a proper hardcast slug will outpenetrate either one of those choices.
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Maybe, though I've never seen the objective evidence to support the theory. And more importantly very few are good enough to hit a charging bear with a sidearm. It's much better to use a long gun if you can.

Efficacy of Firearms for Bear Deterrence in Alaska, Tom Smith
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_coug...prayAlaska.pdf
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The methodology for that note is dubious. They used anecdotal reports and tiny sample sizes. IIRC they also failed to include the many successful DLP shootings in their statistics. Anyone who lives here can tell you there are MANY DLP shootings of brown and black bear every season, where the bear most certainly dies. To claim such a low success rate from firearms is suspicious.
 
The long-gun just seems too unwieldy to rely on it in a moment of action.
If I was to depend on a gun, it seems that this is exactly what the .454 Casull is designed to do. It's about the biggest and baddest cartridge around designed for the biggest prey. The follow up shot is a challenge, but you blew through that one with with anything bigger than a .357 mag.
Overall though, bear spray makes the most sense. It's the one thing that will divert the animal, does not require a direct hit, won't further excite him/her with adrenaline-based fear or pain or both.
Nothing stops you from carrying both but the spray should be the first (and hopefully only) line of defense.
Of course, you should also wear an aluminum foil hat out there because it's more likely you'll be hit by lightning than chased by a bear. (sorry, couldn't resist).
B

shadow9 said:
The best weapon for bear is Bear Spray.

From what I understand, physical damage to bear - unless it involves their CNS - results in a shot of adrenaline and causes them to ignore pain and become extremely aggressive. Bear spray makes whatever they are going after "no longer worth the trouble", so they will often back down. It doesn't cause enough pain to cause them to get aggressive.
Click to expand...
 
I don't trust any handgun bullet. Certainly both polar and grizzlies were killed with handgun bullets that would be derided as inadequate, but I don't want to be the guy who finds out whether it works for me or not. Give me a 45-70.
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I would. Critters larger than grizzlies have been taken with handguns. Enough so that we pretty much know what to expect from them. A hardcast LBT design with a sectional density of .250-.270 launched at 1200fps will easily do the job on any bear. The only thing inadequate about these loads is the ability of the shooter to accurately place one.
 
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