45-70 brass, what the H?

[ndh87]

I have a fair amount of assorted 45-70 brass, some remington, some starline and some Hornady. The Hornady brass is all from their Leverevolution ammo and the cases are about 1/8th inch shorter than standard 45-70 brass. I know it has something to do with making their pointy-squishy-tip bullets chamber, but thats neither here nor there.

My question is: how much of a difference will there be in point of impact for the same powder charge and bullet weight with the different case lengths?

the C.O.L. remains the same only a little more bullet shows with the Hornady brass.

Im going to start casting soon and i want to get a good idea of my accuracy with my cast rounds. I know i should just pick one type of brass and stick with that one for the accuracy loads. Maybe I'll just use the Hornady brass as my disposable (tall grass) ammo.

I just hate to lose any brass considering its a bit expensive

*1894 marlin guide gun*

 

[rcmodel]

Accuracy?
Probably very little unless you mix it all together and shoot it that way.

The problem you may run into is your seating/crimp die may not adjust down far enough to crimp it for your tube magazine.

The solution is to grind off the bottom of the seating/crimp die until it will.

rc

 

[ndh87]

i do tend to mix it all

my dies dont seem to have any problem crimping the shorter brass. i dont even have to reset between normal brass and hornady stubby stuff

 

[rcmodel]

Thats not possible.

If the seating die is set to crimp a standard length case, there is no possible way it can crimp a shorter Hornady case.

You might want to look at those crimps again a little closer.

rc

 

[ndh87]

RC
You are absolutely correct, my normal length brass has a nice roll crimp, the Hornady stuff just goes in far enough to straiten out the the belling on the case mouth, but it still holds the bullet in place. Lucky enough my Marlin doesnt seem to know the difference. It feeds both just fine.

 

[rcmodel]

It's not a question of feeding.

It is a question of if the uncrimped short rounds suffer bullet setback in the tube magazine from spring pressure + recoil hammering on the stack of them?

If they do, pressure will go through the roof!

They need to be crimped in the bullet cannelure just for safety reasons in a tube magazine.

rc

 

[ndh87]

I hadnt thought about that, i'll have to check them and see. I'd hate to blow up one of my favorite rifles

Guess its time to start separating my brass and loading for two different lengths

 

[FROGO207]

I use Lee dies and ground about 1/8 inch off the die bottom and that did the trick. I just used a hardened steel countersink to get my inside bevel again and it worked well when loading after the modifications. BTW I worked up a second set of loads for the shorter Hornaday brass and use a heavier jacketed bullet in it and those are my "rainy day" loads as I have so few of them. If you are using lead bullets and Trail Boss I find there is no felt difference in recoil or POI at 50 yds with either length brass in my rifles.

 

[beatledog7]

Will a Hornady 45-70 seating die adjust down far enough to crimp their FTX-length brass?

 

[jack44]

I buy STARLINE for my 45/70 and I never notice anything bad or poor accuracy.

 

[FROGO207]

I do not have both sets in 45-70 but do have both in 444 Marlin and they work at the same length there. I have never used 444 Marlin LeveRevolution brass by Hornaday either.

 

[rcmodel]

I have never used 444 Marlin LeveRevolution brass by Hornaday either.

Well then, both sets of dies should work, as Hornady brass from the LeverEvolution line is the only brand made that are shorter.

rc

 

[beatledog7]

Quote:
I have never used 444 Marlin LeveRevolution brass by Hornaday either.

Well then, both sets of dies should work, as Hornady brass from the LeverEvolution line is the only brand made that are shorter.

I don't follow you there, rc.

 

[rcmodel]

Hornady LeverEvolution brass is shorter then other brass to make up for the extra length of the FTX rubber-tip spitzer bullet.

Spitzers are longer for weight then typical flat-point lever-action bullets.

If the brass wasn't shorter, the LeverEvolution loads would be too long to work through the action.

rc

 

[ndh87]

I have both Lee and RCBS dies. The lee dies kept seating the bullets in the case with a bulge to one side of the case, and the resizing die kept dimpling cases. The RCBS dies work perfectly.

 

[beatledog7]

rc, I get that the Hornady FTX brass is shorter to accommodate the spitzer bullet. Where you confused me was in saying that both sets of dies should work.

Did you mean that they would be able to crimp the shorter brass?

 

[Clark]

Last night I shortened a 45LC seater die so I can roll crimp at 45 auto rim.

 

[rcmodel]

Did you mean that they would be able to crimp the shorter brass?

No, I thought you said both sets work with the brass you use, but you haven't used Hornady LE brass.

So I said both sets should work with standard brass.

They may or may not work with shorter Hornady brass.

rc

 

[Snag]

Your gonna have to separate the 1/8th inch shorter cases from the rest and do them separate with different die adjustments. Case expanding, seating, and crimping will change with case length.

Weather or not your dies will adjust down far enough for the shorter case is just a matter or trying it and see what happens.

 

[CraigC]

Do yourself a favor and throw away the shorter Hornady brass.

 

[beatledog7]

Once I shoot the factory FTXs I have, my plan is to reload them with the same bullets again. I just need to figure out if I'll be able to crimp them without grinding my seating die.

 

[rcmodel]

If you have a fired Hornady case, size it, put it in the shell holder and drop it in the seating die.
It will stop when the case mouth hits the crimp shoulder in the die.

Then see if the distance between the bottom of the die and the top of the shell holder is greater then the differance in case length between normal and Hornady cases.

If it is, it will crimp them.

rc

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I bought a used set of Hornady dies for the 45-70 and they will crimp both the normal length and shorter Hornady brass just fine. (with the proper adjustment of course) I don't normally use Hornady brass because I don''t want to readjust the dies during the load session. I'm keeping what I have aside until I get enough to load or until I decide to try some of those FTX bullets.

 

[Stormin.40]

I have RCBS 45-70 dies and they will not crimp the Hornady brass when using the shell holder. I did not want to cut 1/8" off of my die so I simply seat bullets in one step, using the appropriate shell holder, and crimp in a seperate step by placing the case on top of the shell holder instead of in the shell holder. I was concerned the case would get stuck but this has not been an issue.

I don't reload lots of 45-70 ammo so I don't mind the extra step, if I was loading 1000s of rounds I would just throw out the Hornady cases or buy different dies.

 

[rcmodel]

Seems like grinding off a little seater die die would be much simpler.

I have 32-20, & 44-40 WCF dies that the sizing dies had to be ground off to resize for old Colt & winchester chambers at the same time.

I have also done several sets for a friend of mine.

rc