I'm planning on reloading for my 45-70. Already hunting down a Lee Factory crimping die. Question is since this caliber is a straight case, do I need a special case expander too? How important is case trimming for this caliber? I only plan to use my brass 2-3 times, since I have so much brass. For bullets, I'm first gonna try the Hornady 350 FP, for an all around hunting round.
45-70
- Thread starter BJPARKER
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You'll need to bell the mouth of the case enough to get the bullet started.
I've never shot 45-70 brass (either black powder or smokeless loads) enough to where they need trimming. I check it but it never gets too long. Not sure how many loadings it takes to get it there (I only load brass around 5 times or so). If you're only going to reload it 2 or 3 times, I can't imagine it needing to be trimmed.
I've never shot 45-70 brass (either black powder or smokeless loads) enough to where they need trimming. I check it but it never gets too long. Not sure how many loadings it takes to get it there (I only load brass around 5 times or so). If you're only going to reload it 2 or 3 times, I can't imagine it needing to be trimmed.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
BJ - I use the std 3 die set (Lee) and get my flare at powder drop (stage 2) .... just enough to accept the 405 grain Lasercast. I do finish each round by running thru FCD - no crimp at bullet seat (stage 3).
The rounds come out nicely - and as I use these (for now) just thru my BFR - I am not really bothering yet to check for stretch. If I get to reload #4 or 5 on any particular case then I guess I'll check. Hope to find a Ruger #1 and with that I'll watch case length a bit more I think.
I bought up some Starline 45-70 brass - very pleased with it.
The rounds come out nicely - and as I use these (for now) just thru my BFR - I am not really bothering yet to check for stretch. If I get to reload #4 or 5 on any particular case then I guess I'll check. Hope to find a Ruger #1 and with that I'll watch case length a bit more I think.
I bought up some Starline 45-70 brass - very pleased with it.
steveno
Member
I had some Winchester and Remington 45-70 cases with over 10 loads on them and they never needed to be trimmed. I now have some Federal nickel plated cases with 7 or 8 loads on them and trimming won't be needed for a long time
Paul "Fitz" Jones
Moderator - Emeritus
California Saeco .45/70 bullet molds
As the company distributor I disagreed with the 500 grain bullet that the caliber was known for and Custer shot at the indians. I had a line of 300 to a maximum of 405 grain 4 cavity molds made and I received some interesting feedback from men who competed with their rifles of various makes.
The max load was 55 grains of 3031 powder for that range of bullet weights but my hundreds of customers I advised that the 300 to 344 saeco bullets would win matches and bring home any meat for the table was 48 grains of 3031 and many many customers reported that they were happy with that load.
Paul Fitz Jones California Saeco Distributor
Retired and Loving It
As the company distributor I disagreed with the 500 grain bullet that the caliber was known for and Custer shot at the indians. I had a line of 300 to a maximum of 405 grain 4 cavity molds made and I received some interesting feedback from men who competed with their rifles of various makes.
The max load was 55 grains of 3031 powder for that range of bullet weights but my hundreds of customers I advised that the 300 to 344 saeco bullets would win matches and bring home any meat for the table was 48 grains of 3031 and many many customers reported that they were happy with that load.
Paul Fitz Jones California Saeco Distributor
Retired and Loving It
steveno
Member
my opinion is that you won't ever have to trim 45-70 cases. I don't even have the stuff to trim them with and I have been shooting the 45-70 for close to 20 years
My Marlin shoots the factory Win 300gr Partition Golds very well, and the Rem factory 300gr HP and 405 gr SP very well. I tried the Garrett 420gr and they didn't stabilze at all, poor accuracy and cost an arm and a leg- had thought they might be good for elk. I read some where that its hard to stabilize bullets over 450gr in the 45-70. And after getting an elk with the Win Partition Golds, I decided I didn't need anything more than a 300-350gr well constructed bullet. I read many testimonials to the Hornady 350gr interlock FP for this caliber, and that it has worked well with H-322 to give good velocity without added pressure. And H-322 is not temperature sensitive. Also looking at H-4198, for clean burning, not temp sensitive, but heard its adds some high pressures with a greater velocity.Also considered Rel 7, but its temperature sensitive,and I live in high altitude. I will research IMR 3031 too. I'm trying to keep costs down right now, as I am budgeting for night school. After looking at the increased prices for the Partition Golds, I felt it time to roll my own for 45-70, then start rolling out some 444Marlin and 375 Winchesters. So all this info is greatly appreciated.
Steveno- I don't own a case trimmer either, and really don't want to get one if its not critical.
Steveno- I don't own a case trimmer either, and really don't want to get one if its not critical.
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To add to the BJParker's reply, if you don't have luck with the .350 grain, my Marlins have always liked the 300 grain JHP (either Remington or Hornady.) And don't overcrimp. Good luck. I use mine for plinking. An empty pop can plinked with a 45-70 stays plinked.
Frohickey
Member
Is case-trimming not required only for black-powder and cowboy loads for the older/weaker guns?
The newer Marlins and Ruger #1s can handle higher pressures. I would think that those types of loads will require occassional case trimming.
The newer Marlins and Ruger #1s can handle higher pressures. I would think that those types of loads will require occassional case trimming.
steveno
Member
generally straight walled cases of any caliber(pressure rating) very seldom if ever need trimming unless you happen to be very bored.
BluesBear
member
I wouldn't worry about trimming .45-70 brass.
I also wouldn't waste the money on a Lee FC die. The standard roll crimp die in any good three die set will work just fine.
I also wouldn't waste the money on a Lee FC die. The standard roll crimp die in any good three die set will work just fine.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
I agree Bear - the std roll crimp is well ''adequate'' - but the FCD is actually a fairly inexpensive item and IMO does give a greater uniformity - thus maybe helping tighten up the load performance parameters further. Certainly, in BFR a pretty solid crimp is desirable to keep bullets well secured too.
deciple-of-keith
Member
I've been using a Marlin 45-70 for years and had 100 rnds of brass for as long as I've had the Old Girl (I know those cases by name ,&and can identify em by touch inthe dark 
) So far I've never had to trim em 
) So far I've never had to trim em 
LAH
Member
Unless you're using Ruger No. 1 loads the cases will last through many loadings. For the best all round bullet try the RCBS 45-405-FN.
redneck2
Member
Best thing
about the .45-70....the above photo is actual size
about the .45-70....the above photo is actual size
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
That 405 in LAH's pic sure looks bigger than full size on my screen!
Just as comparison - here is my lasercast 405 offering ........ not quite the same mould and mine have no gas check. Really must cast some good hard gas check bullets for #1 sizzlers!
Just as comparison - here is my lasercast 405 offering ........ not quite the same mould and mine have no gas check. Really must cast some good hard gas check bullets for #1 sizzlers!
mainmech48
Member
Maybe I'm a little over-the-top, but I run all new brass through a Lee trimmer before the first loading. Then chamfer/deburr the mouth inside and out. As I use the standard roll crimp/seating die, I like to have as much consistency as I can get.
Try a Lyman 'M' die to bell your case mouths. I've been able to get more reloadings before I start to get little cracks from working the brass there since I started using it. Average accuracy seems better, too although that may be as much a factor of more experience shooting and reloading the cartridge as it is more consistent bullet pull.
Try a Lyman 'M' die to bell your case mouths. I've been able to get more reloadings before I start to get little cracks from working the brass there since I started using it. Average accuracy seems better, too although that may be as much a factor of more experience shooting and reloading the cartridge as it is more consistent bullet pull.
BluesBear
member
Another recommendation here regarding the Lyman M expander die.
I started upgrading all of my die sets with Lyman M dies back in the 1980s.
I found that case life was much longer because mouth splits virtually disappeared. It's was especially obvious with nickel plated cases.
I started upgrading all of my die sets with Lyman M dies back in the 1980s.
I found that case life was much longer because mouth splits virtually disappeared. It's was especially obvious with nickel plated cases.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Bear - Je suis cochon ignorant re the Lyman M dies. I do manage well enough with all my countless Lee die sets - plus one or two RCBS and Lyman .... but what is so special about these dies?.
May be late in the day at my age to change things but - these do sound awful good!!
May be late in the day at my age to change things but - these do sound awful good!!
BluesBear
member
Chris, it's only the Lyman M expanding die that's the Dog's Bollocks. The other Lyman dies are just very good dies.
I do like the fact that the Lyman seat dies are top loaded unlike the RCBS and the lock ring holds the setting better than Lee. (if you double lock ring the plug you keep the setting even when you change plugs)
From the Lyman site;
1) The first step expands the inside of the case neck to just under bullet diameter for precise case neck tension in the finished reload. (See Illus. A.)
2) The second step expands the case mouth to bullet diameter or slightly over. This allows the jacketed or cast bullet to be started perfectly centered in the case mouth and properly aligned with the axis of the case neck. (See Illus. B.)
NOTE: By adjusting the neck expanding plug slightly deeper, Step 2 also provides a slight flaring of the case mouth for reloaders using cast bullets. (See Illus. C.)
I have never had to use more than the second step as shown in #B.
That'll give you a nice straight yet snug opening to seat the bullet into perfectly straight every time. You'll never get a cockeyed bullet and it's almost impossible to excessively flare the case mouth.
The larger expanded portion is just sightly undersized to give the bullet a good grip. Since the case now holds the bullet so well you don't have to over crimp.
They even make a hollow version now where the die is threaded for a powder measure for use on progressive presses.
I do like the fact that the Lyman seat dies are top loaded unlike the RCBS and the lock ring holds the setting better than Lee. (if you double lock ring the plug you keep the setting even when you change plugs)
From the Lyman site;
1) The first step expands the inside of the case neck to just under bullet diameter for precise case neck tension in the finished reload. (See Illus. A.)
2) The second step expands the case mouth to bullet diameter or slightly over. This allows the jacketed or cast bullet to be started perfectly centered in the case mouth and properly aligned with the axis of the case neck. (See Illus. B.)
NOTE: By adjusting the neck expanding plug slightly deeper, Step 2 also provides a slight flaring of the case mouth for reloaders using cast bullets. (See Illus. C.)
I have never had to use more than the second step as shown in #B.
That'll give you a nice straight yet snug opening to seat the bullet into perfectly straight every time. You'll never get a cockeyed bullet and it's almost impossible to excessively flare the case mouth.
The larger expanded portion is just sightly undersized to give the bullet a good grip. Since the case now holds the bullet so well you don't have to over crimp.
They even make a hollow version now where the die is threaded for a powder measure for use on progressive presses.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Thx - that diag' speaks volumes. I have managed pretty well thus far with what I have, and doubt I'll go getting this but - good to know it's there. Nice design feature.
LAH
Member
Allow me to confess. The bullet is really an NEI version of the RCBS 45-405-FN and really weighes 430 grs.
I'll also place a vote for the Lyman M die.
I'll also place a vote for the Lyman M die.
BluesBear
member
Eh, the M die is only $15 retail. Midway and places sell them for less.
For less bullet distortion and better bullet retention. I think they're worth it.
Especially since If you use one you probably won't ever need a Lee Factory crimp die. I know I have never felt I needed one. And I have loaded more than my share of ammo over the years.
For less bullet distortion and better bullet retention. I think they're worth it.
Especially since If you use one you probably won't ever need a Lee Factory crimp die. I know I have never felt I needed one. And I have loaded more than my share of ammo over the years.
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