45/70 worth it?

[CraigC]

Not really as cut & dried as it may seem at first. There is actually a lot of overlap. The .45Colt with heavy loads in the right gun will take any critter you want to hunt, including things you may not be thinking about. The problem is that most .45 leverguns will not feed and/or stabilize long and heavy bullets that would be needed for dangerous game. Still, tough bullets in the 300gr range will take most North American game. If you tune a fast twist rifle to feed 360's, there is no limit to its game taking ability. The .45/70 slings a heavier bullet with aplomb but the fact is, there is very little need for a +400gr bullet. What it really gains you is range. A 300gr out of the .45/70 will effectively double your effective range over a 300gr .45. For heavy stuff a 420gr out of the .45/70 is a 200yd Hammer of Thor. Again, same critters, just farther away.

 

[silicosys4]

I bought a browning 1886 SRC when I was having the same question...
.45 Colt or .44 mag out of a trim, easy carrying M92
Or
Something in .45-70.
I ended up with the .45-70 as it made more sense to carry a bigger gun with light loads, with the capability of heavier/faster loads for more range/power
than to carry a smaller gun hot rodded with heavy loads to match what the .45-70 can do with light loads.
The versatility of the .45-70 far exceeds the .45 Colt in a rifle.

 

[jmr40]

I bought my 1st 45-70 used in 1976. It was part of the original run when Marlin reintroduced them in 1973. I've come to the conclusion that 45-70 is the single most over-rated cartridge out there, but I do wish I'd kept that rifle, they are uncommon and bring a premium today. I paid $175 in 1976 BTW. It looked just like this. They only made this configuration for 1 or 2 years and it is still my favorite. I've had 2 others including a Guide gun but finally sold the last one about 15 years ago.



The original black powder loads, and equivalent modern smokeless powder loads have very little recoil but are weak. About the same power level as a 45 caliber muzzle loader, which is considered the minimum for deer and is not legal for game larger than deer in most places. When the 30-30 was introduced, it was considered way more powerful than 45-70.

Modern loads make 45-70 a legitimate elk or moose gun. But recoil from the top end loads a light lever gun is brutal. Way out of proportion to its capability.

Loading manuals show 3 different levels. The lightest loads are suitable for original 1800's era rifles and their reproductions. The mid-level loads are suitable for most lever actions. The top end loads are only for single shots or bolt action rifles.

The top end loads will shoot the same bullet weights as a 458 WM, but over 100 fps slower. The top end loads suitable for a lever gun are still going to hit you with about the same recoil as a 458 WM because the lever guns run 2-3 lbs lighter than most bolt action 458's.

And those loads are nowhere near 458 WM performance. A 30-06 or even a 308 with heavier bullets will outperform 45-70 on any game animal and do it with 1/2 the recoil.

If I wanted a big bore lever gun I'd stay with 44 mag or 45 Colt. With good loads either of those are legitimate deer and black bear cartridges. The cheapest option for lever action rifles and ammo is still 30-30 and there isn't anything I'd hunt with 45-70 that I'd not hunt with 30-30.

 

[Risky buisness]

Having a Marlin 1895 for sometime now, and my BPCR Remington rolling block, I'm all in on 45-70. Loaded light, great plink/ deer/ fun rifle. Getting serious with the load, the 45-70 is more than capable for any species on this continent, and a large majority of anywhere else. I spend more time with the black powder loadings, but my roller has fired plenty of smokeless in the trap door rated range. Serious rifles, make no mistake.

 

[3Crows]

I love the .45C in my Blackhawk at any level from cowboy to +P bear loads. So, and I have asked this before, which lever rifle will reliably load and cycle and can handle (strength wise) the heavy grain (320 grain), wide meplat bullets and/or +P loads? Because it takes those to move up and into even the trapdoor higher end equivalency with a .45-70. I suspect the Rossi .454 lever rifle will handle the heavy .45 Colt loads but will the Henry, 1894 Marlin (and new faster twist 1894 Marlin)?

 

[Charlie98]

Those are amazing looking guns

Thank you, you are very kind! The Savage 99's are jewels... I love my 99F. They are not for everyone... they are a bit esoteric, and I could see how they wouldn't 'fit' some people (that is, stock and sights) but 50 rounds through mine, and I immediately turned around and sold my Marlin 336.

and would likely just use the old Trapdoor loads out of it. For my purposes, a 45 Colt would work just as good.

I had that idea as well... so I picked up an H&R Classic Hunter in .45 Colt... a 'baby' .45-70, so to speak.

 

[Csinn]

I love the .45C in my Blackhawk at any level from cowboy to +P bear loads. So, and I have asked this before, which lever rifle will reliably load and cycle and can handle (strength wise) the heavy grain (320 grain), wide meplat bullets and/or +P loads? Because it takes those to move up and into even the trapdoor higher end equivalency with a .45-70. I suspect the Rossi .454 lever rifle will handle the heavy .45 Colt loads but will the Henry, 1894 Marlin (and new faster twist 1894 Marlin)?

My Rossi r92 in 45 colt handles the 325 grain buffalo bore just fine

 

[CraigC]

The original black powder loads, and equivalent modern smokeless powder loads have very little recoil but are weak. About the same power level as a 45 caliber muzzle loader, which is considered the minimum for deer and is not legal for game larger than deer in most places. When the 30-30 was introduced, it was considered way more powerful than 45-70.

A 30-06 or even a 308 with heavier bullets will outperform 45-70 on any game animal and do it with 1/2 the recoil.

.....there isn't anything I'd hunt with 45-70 that I'd not hunt with 30-30.

I've been on dozens of forums over a period of about 25yrs, along with YouTube and tons of Facebook shooting groups. This is some of the most nonsensical rhetoric I have EVER read on the internet. Absolutely not congruent with reality.

 

[CraigC]

I love the .45C in my Blackhawk at any level from cowboy to +P bear loads. So, and I have asked this before, which lever rifle will reliably load and cycle and can handle (strength wise) the heavy grain (320 grain), wide meplat bullets and/or +P loads? Because it takes those to move up and into even the trapdoor higher end equivalency with a .45-70. I suspect the Rossi .454 lever rifle will handle the heavy .45 Colt loads but will the Henry, 1894 Marlin (and new faster twist 1894 Marlin)?

All great questions, with few answers. The stupid slow twist rate has always been a ridiculous limitation on the guns chambered in .44Mag and .45Colt. Still don't understand the reasoning. I'm glad that we're finally now coming out from under that dark cloud. I know that the new Chiappa 1892's have a standard twist and I looked at a new Marlin the other day that appeared to as well. Now it's the cartridge length in question. All I can tell you with complete certainty is that the Rossi .454's have zero limitations as they cycle and feed 360gr bullets in .454 cases. Some will argue but that is a legitimate dangerous game rig.

DANGEROUS GAME 454 CASULL - Mono-Metal

DANGEROUS GAME 454 CASULL - Mono-Metal

www.buffalobore.com

 

[S.Crockett]

The .45-70 Gommit is a highly versatile hunting cartridge that can be loaded up or down. For most hunting in the lower 48 you don’t even need to use a max load anyway.

A 405grn soft-point bullet or coated hardcast slug @ moderate velocity is a proven game-getter at normal deer hunting distances - typically inside 110yds and more likely inside 75yds east of the Mississippi.



I got my lever-action primarily for legal deer sniping in a straight-walled cartridge state.

 

[3Crows]

All great questions, with few answers. The stupid slow twist rate has always been a ridiculous limitation on the guns chambered in .44Mag and .45Colt. Still don't understand the reasoning. I'm glad that we're finally now coming out from under that dark cloud. I know that the new Chiappa 1892's have a standard twist and I looked at a new Marlin the other day that appeared to as well. Now it's the cartridge length in question. All I can tell you with complete certainty is that the Rossi .454's have zero limitations as they cycle and feed 360gr bullets in .454 cases. Some will argue but that is a legitimate dangerous game rig.

DANGEROUS GAME 454 CASULL - Mono-Metal

DANGEROUS GAME 454 CASULL - Mono-Metal

www.buffalobore.com

There is this article provided by another member:

45 Colt In Lever Action Rifles

But it really does not satisfy my curiosity.

 

[3Crows]

I've been on dozens of forums over a period of about 25yrs, along with YouTube and tons of Facebook shooting groups. This is some of the most nonsensical rhetoric I have EVER read on the internet. Absolutely not congruent with reality.

I have also been told that the .45-70 Marlin cannot shoot MOA because a Y-tube influencer with a Marlin SBL and a giant can installed on it could not. I have several Marlin .45-70 rifles that can and do put three holes touching or very close routinely at 100 yards off a bag or rest, from cold, under optimal conditions and with a good scope using either the HLR ammo or the Hammer Down which is pretty darn accurate also. I agree that the .45-70 is often over hyped and it is also over maligned. And as much as I like .30-30, it is not even in the same neighborhood as .45-70.

As to influencers, I have about gotten tired of all of them, even the concept of such, in any subject matter. I think I can influence myself just fine without some Y-tube blather.

 

[halfmoonclip]

I thought about 45 Colt (magnum) type loads versus 45-70. I can load 300 grained 45-70 well past 45 Colt at +P levels. Temper that with what do you really need with that level of performance? And who wants to stand behind a full power load too many times.

I have a jaundiced view; my .45-70 was a Ruger #3, which weighs maybe 5 lbs; never did find a mild enough load to make that thing any fun.

I hope for Trail Boss to come back on line. I still have a reserve, 900 fps loads are possible with the TB propellents and the .45-70 is then like shooting a big .22.

3 Crows, any idea of the status of Trailboss? It's my go-to, for punkin roller loads in .45 Colt; I still have some as well, but can't think of a good alternative in that big case. Trailboss is great stuff.
Moon

 

[Old Hobo]

Have animals changed any since 45-70 rifles began killing them?!

Recoil sensitive? Don't buy a big-borel Get shooting pad or shooting jacket if you need such.

Want a different rifle chambering? OK. Great! Hurrah! Just don't blame some old cartridge. The men who used them "back in the day" put meat on the family supper table ... actually, they put a lot of meat on the table.
----------------------

 

[MEHavey]

go-to, for punkin roller loads in .45 Colt;

Try Red Dot or Clays

 

[halfmoonclip]

Try Red Dot or Clays

Push come to shove, I'll try those. Thnx!
Moon

 

[3Crows]

I have a jaundiced view; my .45-70 was a Ruger #3, which weighs maybe 5 lbs; never did find a mild enough load to make that thing any fun.

3 Crows, any idea of the status of Trailboss? It's my go-to, for punkin roller loads in .45 Colt; I still have some as well, but can't think of a good alternative in that big case. Trailboss is great stuff.
Moon

I am afraid at this point that Trail Boss has ridden off into the sunset .

 

[small town life]

Rio, those 1895 CB's are some nice rifles/shooters.

I have a cb also and a sbl (my avatar). I won it in a 4H raffle. Even with being able to go higher pressure than rolling blocks (50% higher pressure) it isn't that bad on recoil. I need to check velocity and see what energy is. Other than that I have a rossi92 in 44mag. What I don't like is the top ejection!

 

[trackskippy]

I have a jaundiced view; my .45-70 was a Ruger #3, which weighs maybe 5 lbs; never did find a mild enough load to make that thing any fun.

3 Crows, any idea of the status of Trailboss? It's my go-to, for punkin roller loads in .45 Colt; I still have some as well, but can't think of a good alternative in that big case. Trailboss is great stuff.
Moon

I had a #3 I inherited from my dad. Basically a 45/70 in a 10-22 stock. I hated that friggin thing until I tried some Trail Boss and 300 grain lead flat points. It went from a nasty thumper to a pussycat, and was a lot of fun to shoot. Worked well in my Marlin too.

And youre right, Trail Boss is a great stuff.

I am afraid at this point that Trail Boss has ridden off into the sunset .

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case around here too. Havent seen any since the last panic, and no one seems to have any idea if and when it will show up (same seems to be going for Unique and a couple of others too). Online hasnt been any better either.

 

[CraigC]

I have also been told that the .45-70 Marlin cannot shoot MOA because a Y-tube influencer with a Marlin SBL and a giant can installed on it could not. I have several Marlin .45-70 rifles that can and do put three holes touching or very close routinely at 100 yards off a bag or rest, from cold, under optimal conditions and with a good scope using either the HLR ammo or the Hammer Down which is pretty darn accurate also. I agree that the .45-70 is often over hyped and it is also over maligned. And as much as I like .30-30, it is not even in the same neighborhood as .45-70.

As to influencers, I have about gotten tired of all of them, even the concept of such, in any subject matter. I think I can influence myself just fine without some Y-tube blather.

Agree. I would never put the .45/70 in the same league. With the right bullet, such as the old bronze Punch or the 380gr Lehigh copper solid, I consider it a legitimate dangerous game cartridge.

I also despise the concept of "influencers". People shouldn't be so easily influenced. I do, however, firmly believe in a strong network of shameless enablers.

 

[bfoosh006]

Is the 45/70 worth it ?

YES.

Great Thumper round.

 

[ms6852]

You are going to get haters and lovers of the 4570, I love shooting 405gr bullets out of my Sharps and it will knock some kidney stones loose on lighter rifles. I would consider also the the 38-55 Winchester that uses 250 or 255 grain bullets. This makes for a good hunting round as well.

 

[Smokin Gator]

I love shooting my Marlin Cowboy 45-70. With 405gr at around 1500fps. No desire to shoot the 2000fps or 1100fps loads. I'm mot a hunter. As far as "influencers" go there are a few on many subjects that are knowledgeable. But you see all these people with no previous success and very little experience calling themselves influencers. 22 years old and they'll say they're an "executive recruiter" and talk about their "brand" but can't come up with $200 when needed.

 

[halfmoonclip]

I had a #3 I inherited from my dad. Basically a 45/70 in a 10-22 stock. I hated that friggin thing until I tried some Trail Boss and 300 grain lead flat points. It went from a nasty thumper to a pussycat, and was a lot of fun to shoot. Worked well in my Marlin too.

And youre right, Trail Boss is a great stuff.

THAT prompted a coffee launch! Unhappily, had that #3 before Trailboss; I tried everything (cornmeal and kapok included) to fill that gimongous case, but keeping the recoil within reason....never found anything that was much fun. Had this forum existed back then, might have found another solution.
I've enough Trailboss to feed the .45 Colt for some time, but, then, I won't live forever either.
Moon

 

[halfmoonclip]

I am afraid at this point that Trail Boss has ridden off into the sunset .

Well, hell. Hope you're wrong; assumed it had a pretty strong following.
Moon