45/70 worth it?

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

truth is I am saving my money for one of the 1886s. I just can not make up my mind on one of the Italian built, or Japanese built ones,
Do any of you have any opinion, cause trouble is if any repairs are needed or parts, they both would have to come from overseas, and is my understanding both are built using the metric system, vice the inch sytem of the originals

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I would also say for Henry and Rossi to build copies of the Marlin action, well the old saying is imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. So Marlin must of done something right when they designed their rifles

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

and before anyone says something , I do know the Japanese built 1886s say Winchester, but they are not really Winchesters. They are built by Miroku,, and built in Japan. As are the Brownings.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

And the Italian 1886s parts are used by TURNBULL to put out his version of the 1886, so they must be doing something right

 

[3Crows]

I would also say for Henry and Rossi to build copies of the Marlin action, well the old saying is imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. So Marlin must of done something right when they designed their rifles

, you are a fine gentleman and a jovial fellow. I will quit beating up on you and your Henry, you like it and enjoy it, good enough. Truth is I nearly bought the All Weather .44 magnum but I just could not peel the money out of my hands. I will wait for a stainless steel 1894 or possibly the Rossi in .454 (for .45 Colt loads).

Hope you will find a good 1886, those are nice!

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

there are a number of guns I want to buy but my wife says only one a year. the 1886, the ROSSI 45/454 , a Browning lever 30-06, and a lever 35 Whelen. I do see a couple on gun broker once in a while.
Only real pistol I want or need is the new Ruger super wrangler, 22/22 mag.
I shoot left handed, and is easier to work the lever, than try a right handed bolt action, and will see about the Siamese Mauser, in 45-70.
My brother who passed away last year, lived in Haysville Kansas, where are you at?

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I think I also want a browning 308 winchester. I am debating on a AR 10 in 358 Winchester. Problem with AR - 10s are they are so heavy.

 

[3Crows]

there are a number of guns I want to buy but my wife says only one a year. the 1886, the ROSSI 45/454 , a Browning lever 30-06, and a lever 35 Whelen. I do see a couple on gun broker once in a while.
Only real pistol I want or need is the new Ruger super wrangler, 22/22 mag.
I shoot left handed, and is easier to work the lever, than try a right handed bolt action, and will see about the Siamese Mauser, in 45-70.
My brother who passed away last year, lived in Haysville Kansas, where are you at?

The title of this thread should have been How Many .45-70s are Worth It . One is not enough and a traditional wood and blue 1886 would certainly be complimentary to your All Weather. You just need to sneak it in past her . Two .45-70s at a minimum is barely enough.

Sorry about your brother's passing.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

Thanks. Which would you get the Italian 1886, or the Japanese built Winchester by Miroku ? From what I see price is about the same.

 

[DMW1116]

I’m with you in the AR-10. Great guns as long as you’re not the one carrying them.

 

[3Crows]

Thanks. Which would you get the Italian 1886, or the Japanese built Winchester by Miroku ? From what I see price is about the same.

Not expert enough to say on the 86. Probably this one:

Model 1886 Short Rifle | Lever-Action Rifle | Winchester

Lever-action rifle chambered for powerful historic cartridges, blued receiver, lever, forearm cap and crescent buttplate. 24" round barrel. Satin finish walnut straight grip stock and forearm. Marble Arms front sight and adjustable rear sight; receiver is tapped.

www.winchesterguns.com

 

[silicosys4]

Thanks. Which would you get the Italian 1886, or the Japanese built Winchester by Miroku ? From what I see price is about the same.

IMO I'd rather have a Miroku made 1886 than an Italian made 1886, especially given the price difference...Miroku's and Italian 1886's are indeed about the same price, with the Winchester having a slight advantage depending on retailer
The Miroku's are fine guns, IF you are not bothered by the rebounding hammer and tang safety that makes it a bit problematic to mount a tang sight.


Again, I have no experience with the Italian guns, I just know that Miroku has been making 1886's for almost 40 years now and has the reputation of making guns every bit as good as the originals.

 

[MEHavey]

- delete -

 

[MEHavey]

1886, or the Japanese built Winchester by Miroku

See https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=597311
(Note use of Williams FP-1 aperture after the 1st couple of posts)

 

[StrawHat]

Hey Coastie,

Get a real Model 1895 and don’t look back,



This is chambered in 405 WCF. At one time considered too powerful for North American game. Two things have happened since then,

1. Game has gotten tougher!
2. Folks started to reload.

Kevin

 

[CraigC]

My late Remington-era Marlin 1895SS is nicer than any of my earlier JM Marlins. I never understood why they were considered some sort of benchmark.

I see a lot of folks complaining about the Ruger/Marlin pricing based on MSRP. In the 30yrs I've been buying them, Rugers have always gone for 75-80% of MSRP. Certainly not higher.

 

[CraigC]

Far as I know, Turnbull is using Japanese Winchester 1886's, not Italian. No matter where they're made, they're still "Winchester". It's not like they were made in the US and under the Winchester family before Miroku started making them. Peoplel ike to think they're buying history in a new gun. They're not. You buy a new Colt, Winchester, Remington or S&W, you're still buying a new gun, made by modern employees that may or may not give a damn about what they're making, at the direction of a wholly modern corporation, usually owned by a bunch of investors that also don't give a damn about what they're making. Buy the gun, not the story. Any history attached to a new firearm will have to be made, by you.

That said, Both are very fine guns. I've handled the Pedersoli's in Cabela's and almost brought one home. I may still.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I am not sure when Winchester quit making rifles in the good old USA, but I believe was sometime in the 1980s. Browning quit making Brownings in Belgium about the same time. First Portugal, and now Japan, at Miroku just like Winchester.
All the Turnbull Winchesters I have seen, do not have a safety, do have the half cock notch in the hammer, and do not have a rebounding hammer.
Some of my friends that bought those, have had misfires, as the hammer is not striking the firing pin hard enough to ignite the primer.
I have never heard of that with the Pedroselli's or Uberti's. The Chiappa's are still new enough have not heard either way on them.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I would like to get an 1895 in 30-06

 

[CraigC]

I am not sure when Winchester quit making rifles in the good old USA, but I believe was sometime in the 1980s. Browning quit making Brownings in Belgium about the same time. First Portugal, and now Japan, at Miroku just like Winchester.
All the Turnbull Winchesters I have seen, do not have a safety, do have the half cock notch in the hammer, and do not have a rebounding hammer.
Some of my friends that bought those, have had misfires, as the hammer is not striking the firing pin hard enough to ignite the primer.
I have never heard of that with the Pedroselli's or Uberti's. The Chiappa's are still new enough have not heard either way on them.

It was much later than that, in 2006.

Browning was using Miroku in at least the `70's, long before Winchester did.

The Turnbull Winchesters don't have the rebounding hammer or tang safety because they remove them.

Uberti has never made an 1886.

 

[StrawHat]

I would like to get an 1895 in 30-06

The original rifles chambered for the 03 or 06 developed headspace problems. Not sure if the new ones have the same issues. If I had a new one in 06, I would send the barrel out and have it bored for the 40 Whelan. Just because!!

Kevin

 

[troy fairweather]

I would like to get an 1895 in 30-06

Originals don't hold up well with modern pressure 06, try finding one of the Browning made repros or the ones Winchester did a few years ago. Tho I think the new wins were 30/40 and 405s. I always wanted one in 35 Winchester and have come across a few nice rifles but never had the money at the time.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

Well I do not know if someone is making them for Uberti, but their web page does show an Uberti marked 1886 in 45-70.
As far as I know Uberti does their own manufacturing. That is all I can say.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

as far as the new Browning or Winchester marked 1895s have never heard of a problem with headspacing.
If I got one , it would be an older Browning with out the safety.

 

[Snidely70431]

I would love to learn to paper patch, with the 45-70. Is there any instructions on how to do that, and I would assume that means using cast bullets, and undersizing them. Is it possible to use regular bullets and paper patch them, or buying cast bullets to use that have already been sized. Is there an instruction book to learn to paper patch bullets. I have read that prior to 1910 all companies sold paper patched bullets that had been loaded at the factories. I guess all those folks passed away, and they got away from that. I have also read they were really accurate.

The best book of which I know about paper patching is The Paper Jacket by Paul Mathews(1991). Wolfe Publishing Company. It seems to be available from Amazon.

The biggest problem I've found is a lack of different thicknesses of paper. Almost nobody is making anything other than 20 pound copy/ computer paper. This makes an OK patch, two layers gets an increase of about .012 inches. It dries tight and hard and then can be lubricated and water proofed with a mixture of bees wax, petroleum jelly and graphite.

I cast my own projectiles,

Link to thread about making an Adjustable Cylindrical Mould for Paper Patching and Sabots

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/homemade-version-of-ideal-cylindrical-adjustable-mould.857786/ Homemade version of Ideal Cylindrical Adjustable Mould By varying the length of projectile, I have cast bullets from 150 grains to almost 700 grains in the same mould.

www.thehighroad.org

The factories making Paper Patched projectiles employed mostly women. As I understand it, in the USA factories went to metal jacketing because the process requires much less labor and metal jacketed projectiles can endure much higher velocities, while paper patched projectiles are limited to a bit over 2000 fps