.45 ACP brass length

[callgood]

As some of you may recall, when I reload my pistol brass I have been known to trim to the lengths noted in the reloading manual.

For .45 ACP
Speer- .888
Hodgon- .895
Sierra- .893

My thought was that if it was totally uniform in length, (1) the crimp would be identical and (2) when I chronographed a load, if there was any problem I would have eliminated one more variable. In addition to practice ammo, I reload Gold Dots, so I wanted rounds as close to perfect/uniformity as I could get.

Having 100 rounds each (less what I was shorted!) of Winchester, Remington and CBC (Magtech) brass and with literally nothing to do one nasty Saturday, I took my calipers and measured each case, rotating it to take the LONGEST reading, since they don't seem to be totally concentric.

To sum up, the Remington had the tightest range. My question is from the standpoint of reliability of feed and accuracy is there any reason to trim any of this back to the Speer length of .888, or would you just throw it all in a bucket and start reloading?

I am going to try and cut and paste the table and the actual lengths in case someone may find the data of value. If the output gets too weird I'll edit for just the table. Note that CBC was the only brand to have a case <.888 (one) and >.895 (one). Here goes-

ALL LENGTHS ON UNSIZED BRASS
Winchester .45ACP..........Remington .45ACP..........CBC .45ACP

High..........0.8945...........High.......0.8950.........High..........0.8955
Low...........0.8900...........Low.......0.8925..........Low..........0.8875
Median.......0.8920..........Median...0.8940..........Median......0.8915
Avg............0.8920..........Avg...... 0.8941..........Avg...........0.8914
Extreme.........................Extreme.....................Extreme
Spread.......0.0045..........Spread...0.0025..........Spread......0.0080
StdDev.....0.001105.........StdDev..0.000461.......StdDev.....0.001536

98 cases...........................99 cases............................100cases

0.8900...............................0.8925............................... 0.8875 short
0.8900...............................0.8930...............................0.8885
0.8900...............................0.8930...............................0.8885
0.8900...............................0.8930...............................0.8890
0.8900...............................0.8930...............................0.8890
0.8905...............................0.8930...............................0.8890
0.8905...............................0.8935...............................0.8890
0.8905...............................0.8935...............................0.8890
0.8905...............................0.8935...............................0.8895
0.8905...............................0.8935...............................0.8895
0.8905...............................0.8935...............................0.8895
0.8905...............................0.8935...............................0.8895
0.8905...............................0.8935...............................0.8900
0.8910...............................0.8935...............................0.8900
0.8910...............................0.8935...............................0.8900
0.8910...............................0.8935...............................0.8900
0.8910...............................0.8935...............................0.8900
0.8910...............................0.8940...............................0.8900
0.8910...............................0.8940...............................0.8900
0.8910...............................0.8940...............................0.8900
0.8910...............................0.8940...............................0.8900
0.8910...............................0.8940...............................0.8900
0.8910...............................0.8940...............................0.8905
0.8910...............................0.8940...............................0.8905
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8905
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8905
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8905
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8905
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8905
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8905
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8905
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8905
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8905
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8905
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8910
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8910
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8910
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8910
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8910
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8910
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8910
0.8915...............................0.8940...............................0.8910
0.8920...............................0.8940...............................0.8910
0.8920...............................0.8940...............................0.8910
0.8920...............................0.8940...............................0.8910
0.8920...............................0.8940...............................0.8910
0.8920...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8920...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8920...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8920...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8920...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8920...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8925...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8925...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8925...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8925...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8925...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8925...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8925...............................0.8940...............................0.8915
0.8925...............................0.8940...............................0.8920
0.8925...............................0.8940...............................0.8920
0.8925...............................0.8940...............................0.8920
0.8925...............................0.8940...............................0.8920
0.8925...............................0.8945...............................0.8920
0.8925...............................0.8945...............................0.8920
0.8925...............................0.8945...............................0.8920
0.8925...............................0.8945...............................0.8920
0.8925...............................0.8945...............................0.8920
0.8925...............................0.8945...............................0.8920
0.8930...............................0.8945...............................0.8920
0.8930...............................0.8945...............................0.8920
0.8930...............................0.8945...............................0.8925
0.8930...............................0.8945...............................0.8925
0.8930...............................0.8945...............................0.8925
0.8930...............................0.8945...............................0.8925
0.8930...............................0.8945...............................0.8925
0.8930...............................0.8945...............................0.8925
0.8930...............................0.8945...............................0.8925
0.8930...............................0.8945...............................0.8925
0.8935...............................0.8945...............................0.8925
0.8935...............................0.8945...............................0.8925
0.8935...............................0.8945...............................0.8930
0.8935...............................0.8945...............................0.8930
0.8935...............................0.8945...............................0.8935
0.8935...............................0.8945...............................0.8935
0.8935...............................0.8945...............................0.8935
0.8935...............................0.8945...............................0.8935
0.8935...............................0.8945...............................0.8935
0.8935...............................0.8945...............................0.8935
0.8935...............................0.8945...............................0.8940
0.8940...............................0.8945...............................0.8940
0.8940...............................0.8945...............................0.8940
0.8940...............................0.8950...............................0.8945
0.8945...............................0.8950...............................0.8945
0.8945...............................0.8950...............................0.8945
.........................................0.8950...............................0.8945
.................................................................................. 0.8955 long

whew

 

[Rockstar]

Just a wild guess, but I'm betting that a few minutes with a competent psychotherapist would save you many years of future grief!

 

[Car Knocker]

Well, I've been reloading since the late '60s and haven't trimmed a .45ACp case yet. I fact, what IS the point in trimming those cases? We use a taper crimp to remove any belling in the case mouth rather than a roll crimp in a cannelured bullet that has to be fairly precisely indexed for consistancey; therefore, case length for a taper crimp needs to be less precise. So THAT can't be the reason.

Oh, yeah, I forgot, the .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth. On my 1911, as the slide moves forward it pushes the top round out of the magazine and under the internal extractor that holds it against the breechface, and then the slide pushes the round into the chamber where the round is......held against the breechface by the extractor and doesn't get anywhere near the shoulder the mouth is supposed to index against.

Back in my impetuous youth (several decades ago), I trimmed about a tenth of an inch off a bunch of cases, loaded them as normal with some other unshortened cases and fired them with the normal rounds. No failures to feed or to fire, no changes in POI between the shortened and unsortened cases, and no extraction problems.

Why DO .45ACP cases need to be trimmed?

 

[The Bushmaster]

Aah...Callgood...I charge only $100 an hour while in my office. I can cure you of this minor problem in about 2 years of 4 hour sessions...Please give me a call. Will ya???

Actually...I'm on your side except I don't start trimming my .45 ACP cases until they reach .890. And I don't crimp them. Other then to be meticulous I have no reason to trim them. I just like them to be the same length...

 

[callgood]

I'm not sure I picked up on all the nuances in your answers, but I'm guessing you don't think there's any advantage.

Yes, the headspace deal was an issue. I've been reloading around 15 months and I took everything in the manuals literally- no deviation. I figured .007" was like the Grand Canyon or something. And I was/am getting good results, StdDev in the single digits, etc.

I use the Lee FCD and one thing I thougt might happen was if I set it up it would crimp differently (more/less) if the rounds weren't the same length. Once after loading 10mm with success I backed off the FCD a bit and my Glock wouldn't go fully in battery unless I "thumbed" the rear of the slide. I think that might have been a factor in my mania.

So, if you know anyone who wants to buy a Forster case trimmer..........



Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I reload 9mm.

Tho' with WalMarts recent price increase on their valupak that's starting to look like a paying proposition.

Thanks for your input and humor!

 

[The Bushmaster]

Hang in there Callgood...We're with you.... We sometimes forget that one reason we reload is so we can do it our way...If it works for you...Then to he++ with the rest of us...For you I would be willing to only charge $75 an hour...

 

[Rockstar]

One thing a guy who's SERIOUSLY O/C doesn't need is a psychotherapist who only charges $100 per hour...kind of like having your life in the hands of a $100 per hour attorney.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Rockstar...I didn't say I was good...Just cheap...

 

[Rockstar]

Yeah, this is a little off-subject, but perhaps not. Got a divorce once. Outstanding trial lawyer cousin of mine was going to represent me free. I found out pretty quickly that spending a little money on a non-relative lawyer served me better. I was being grilled in a deposition by my ex's lawyer, and he asked me how much I was paying my lawyer. "$200 per hour," I said. (This was 25 years ago, when that was pretty hefty.) He was, I suppose, trying to "get at" my financial capabilities. He says, with my ex sitting right there, "Well, that's good, if you can get it." My response (brilliant I thought, at the time) was, "No, if you ARE good, you CAN get it."

Ex-wife's head almost exploded!

Oh, yeah, back on-subject. I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds of .45ACP's, mostly from range pick-up brass. Never trimmed a .45ACP case, except for the first 24 hours when I was reading all the literature and trying to learn to reload. My experience is that .45ACP brass shrinks, not grows.

 

[RyanM]

Unless you're using the most finicky pistol in the world and shooting 500 yard matches, there's no point in trimming.

 

[callgood]

Ryan, I do reload 10mm for 100 yard targets. Haven't done it in 6 months. Maybe I'll reserve the trimmer for that, but save any other for when my wife cranks up a chick flick on the TV.

I have some range brass I'm cleaning up. I'm going to get it prepped and reload some practice rounds without the trim. We'll see how it goes.

 

[caz223]

I don't trim, I sort by brass length.

 

[robertbank]

.45acp cases shorten NOT lengthen over time from reloading so I think all you are doing is speeding up the process to a point where you might have to toss the brass. I shoot my until the case splits of cracks at the mouth from constant belling. I have yet to find any difference in accuracy or velocity ranges using mixed brass of different lengths. I agree with the poster about headspacing. I now what the cartridge is supposed to do but clearly it has been my observation that headspacing takes place off the extractor but then I think the subject of headspacing for the .45acp comes under the heading of "who cares".

Take Care

 

[JDGray]

And my wife said I was annel