45 acp powder

[Crazy Horse]

Good evening,

I love WST powder for shooting 45acp reloads. However, I acquired a PCC from TNW in 45acp.

I ran my reloads using 45 acp and there was quite a bit of smoke. Probably because I was firing quite a bit more and a bit faster than when I fire my handguns in 45acp. Not to mention holding it closer to my cheeks.

I will be looking at trying out a new load and am wondering if anyone has a recommendation for a powder for 45acp that doesn't produce too much smoke.

I have Power Pistol, Sport Pistol, CFE, Unique, and Titegroup.

Any recommendations based on experience is appreciated.

CH

 

[Virginia Jim]

If you love your WST, you can keep your WST.
Seriously, I like HS6 in my 1911’s, but I don’t have a PCC.

 

[Charlie98]

I don't know about the smoke part. Probably the only way you are going to know is to try them.

Unique is excellent in the .45ACP, and likely a good powder for a carbine barrel, as I suspect SportPistol would be as well, as long as it would be full charges... SP is a little position sensitive. Although I've never used it, from what I understand... PowerPistol would be another good one to try.

 

[Crazy Horse]

I've read other folks comment in other places in THR that powders smoke less and burn cleaner when loading up near the max load.

CH

 

[Crazy Horse]

If you love your WST, you can keep your WST.
Seriously, I like HS6 in my 1911’s, but I don’t have a PCC.

I tried HS6 awhile back. it was ok, but WST provided an overall better felt recoil and left the cases cleaner than HS6. Accuracy was excellent. I now use WST for my 45acp and 40 S&W handgun loads and it performs really well. Because I fired the PCC closer to my cheekbone (while in a handgun one has the pistol further away from the face/nose) The smoke was very noticeable and it had a strong odor.

Other folks have commented on HS-6 not being the most ideal powder for 45acp unless you go full load. Having tried it and reading the comments on the link below, I decided to trade with a buddy who preferred it over Sport Pistol

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/how-about-hs6-for-45-acp.638080/

CH

 

[fxvr5]

What bullets are you shooting?

 

[1KPerDay]

If you’re shooting lead it’ll be smoky no matter what.

 

[Crazy Horse]

If you’re shooting lead it’ll be smoky no matter what.

I shot coated lead and fmj bullets as well (~100 each). Didn't notice much of a difference between either of them.

 

[Crazy Horse]

What bullets are you shooting?

I shot Acme coated LRN 230gr and rmr fmj 230gr.

Ch

 

[cfullgraf]

Of what the OP listed, I'd choose Unique. But, I'll admit to not having experience with the others except Titegroup and I do not like Titegroup.

My main choice for 230 RN 45 ACP ammunition is 700-X. With 185-200 grain SWC bullets, I've been experimenting with Accurate #2

 

[cfullgraf]

I shot coated lead and fmj bullets as well (~100 each). Didn't notice much of a difference between either of them.

Coated bullets probably will not smoke more than jacketed or plated bullets. The lubricant used with bare cast bullets cause a smokier cloud when fired.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Unique gets my vote.

I have shot a good amount of coated bullets. They do smoke a little. I think they smell like burning brake pads.

 

[brewer12345]

I'd try Unique. I use 7 grains and a coated cast 200 grain SWC in 45 and find that combination to be clean burning. Try charges in the upper half of the min-max range.

 

[Charlie98]

My forever .45ACP load has been 6.5grn Unique under any 230grn jacketed or plated bullet, it's been a good performer, and basically duplicates factory. It IS a max book load, so work up to it. At that charge, with that weight of bullet, I've found it to be a pretty clean burner... for Unique... and I'll bet it would be a winner in a carbine barrel.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Thank you very much on the recommendations.

I'll give Unique a try. I've heard positive comments on the unique. So much in fact that I forgot I had purchased a pound of it awhile back (along with a pound of BE-86, which I haven't gotten around to using either), but have yet use it (in these lean times, you gravitate towards what you know works well for you and don't experiment too much as the cost tends to be in primers). I'll look at using the 230gr bullets (coated and jacketed) and I still have a couple a hundred 200gr plated bullets from trying them out on my 1911. Oddly enough, the velocity claimed on the 200gr loads was 1000 fps. Didn't try it on my M&P, but it had a noticeable push when fired out of the 1911.

It'll be awhile as the Christmas is around the corner. I'll make sure to post my results. The "smokiness" will be subjective, but I can say that my bay looked like I was smoking a two cigarette simultaneously after 25 rounds. So any smoke produced less than that the smoke produced using WST should be noticeable.

CH

 

[Charlie98]

I think you have the right plan. A few years ago, I bought an alloy 1911, and my full-house Unique load really pounded it, even with a full power spring. I switched to 200grn bullets, which helped, but with a reduced load of Unique, it wasn't burning very clean. Enter WST, and to a lesser extent, W244... they work very well with the lighter bullet, WST in particular. That has become my Master Plan, anyway...

 

[AJC1]

Clean usually happens in the highest pressure region. Lot of hate for TG but in my experience its clean even lighter loads because its fast burning and rapidly develops a high peak pressure to burn clean. This results in a much snappier recoil and a lower muzzle velosity than slower powders. Power pistol is great when chasing high bullet speeds but is very loud and throws a large muzzle flash. Unique is great in a broad range of loadings and the "dirty" never seemed to be a thing for me. What is causing the smoke? Do you shoot cast with lube and that's smoking or do you lube your gun excessively? From a powder only position TG has never produced any smoke while shooting indoor ranges where that matters. I have not used the other listed powders.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Not to hijack the thread, but you all are saying the relative cleanliness of a powder is partly affected by size of load?

I too shoot a 45ACP. So for example, if I use 5.0gr of W231 I’ll get a less clean round than 5.5?

I never knew this.

Edit: that’s all things being equal.

 

[Charlie98]

I too shoot a 45ACP. So for example, if I use 5.0gr of W231 I’ll get a less clean round than 5.5?

You may not see a difference with only .5grn difference, but the concept is correct. Powder also requires pressure to work properly, more powder increases pressure and contributes to a fuller... and cleaner... burn in most cases. There are a zillion variables, but this is the generic premise.

 

[Dudedog]

Not on your list but for .45 practice loads I like HP38/W231, AA#2, and N320.
From your list I would try Sport Pistol and Titegroup first.
I am not a big fan of Titegroup but lots of people like it, Titegroup burns hot so if the smoke is from the coating Titegroup may be worse.

I too shoot a 45ACP. So for example, if I use 5.0gr of W231 I’ll get a less clean round than 5.5?

Maybe, maybe not. It takes a certain pressure for a powder to burn "clean". Once you get to that point I don't know if it really gets "cleaner" as pressure goes up.

 

[AJC1]

Not to hijack the thread, but you all are saying the relative cleanliness of a powder is partly affected by size of load?

I too shoot a 45ACP. So for example, if I use 5.0gr of W231 I’ll get a less clean round than 5.5?

I never knew this.

Edit: that’s all things being equal.

When using a powder that is to slow more doesn't fix it. One of the best known for this is imr4227. If you dont crimp the life out of the case with a full charge high neck tension a heavier bullet with the longest barrel possible it's not going to completely burn. More than a few reports can be found here about chunks of powder left over.

 

[Charlie98]

One of the best known for this is imr4227.

First time I used IMR4227, in the .41MAG with a taper crimp... that's what happened. I though... this stuff is garbage! But... a good roll crimp fixed most of that, and it's now one of my favorite powders... for my .41 rifle, not so much in pistols, still.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Thanks everyone. My head’s going to explode. I’ll continue to load my favorite standard loads and hold my breath until the smoke clears

 

[Crazy Horse]

Clean usually happens in the highest pressure region. Lot of hate for TG but in my experience its clean even lighter loads because its fast burning and rapidly develops a high peak pressure to burn clean. This results in a much snappier recoil and a lower muzzle velosity than slower powders. Power pistol is great when chasing high bullet speeds but is very loud and throws a large muzzle flash. Unique is great in a broad range of loadings and the "dirty" never seemed to be a thing for me. What is causing the smoke? Do you shoot cast with lube and that's smoking or do you lube your gun excessively? From a powder only position TG has never produced any smoke while shooting indoor ranges where that matters. I have not used the other listed powders.

I shot both Coated cast and FMJ. I only put 4 drops of lube in the bolt. Two at the bottom and one on each side to ensure the bolt was coated since it was new. The coating when I was done was good. I've learned that you can fire a handgun almost dry, but a rifle with a bolt type carrier requires some lube to be reliable.

I used Tightgroup when I started reloading. Since then, I only use TG for revolver loads. My barrels tend to get noticeably hotter with TG, so using it for revolvers keeps them from heating up since it's shoot 6 or 7 then reload.

One of the problems that attributed to excessive smoke was the rate of fire. Yes, I fired it faster than I normally would to check for reliability and as it is still breaking in, I was looking to see how quickly it would smooth out in terms of jamming. Yes, it got smoother as the round count went up, and I suspect it'll get really smooth and reliably fire as the round count continues to go up.

I still have some 45 load that I loaded with TG that are almost a year old. I'm going to go for Unique first. I agree about Power Pistol. It is LOUD. excellent, but it is the loudest powder I have. I haven't used it in awhile as most of my range time is indoors. When I use it for a match, because it is outside, noise is not an issue. Inside however, you can hear that it is noticeably louder.

THX

CH

 

[Crazy Horse]

Thanks everyone. My head’s going to explode. I’ll continue to load my favorite standard loads and hold my breath until the smoke clears