45 Colt SBR Suppressed Load Data

[Koolkustomer]

I have a Rossi Puma 45 Colt chopped off to 11" and suppressed with an Osprey and I'm having a hard time figuring out load data for 300 gr Hornady XTP ( I can't use lead because of the Osprey ) in the 1000 to 1050 fps range. The available data that I've found is either too slow or high pressure loads supersonic. Any thoughts or suggestions for load data would be helpful.

 

[Havok7416]

I'm not familiar with the Osprey's requirements, but would be possible to use coated bullets?

Alternately you can find plated .45 Colt bullets and data if you look around.

 

[Koolkustomer]

I'm not familiar with the Osprey's requirements, but would be possible to use coated bullets?

Alternately you can find plated .45 Colt bullets and data if you look around.

Yes, I bought a few hundred Missouri Bullet 300's with the Hi-tech coating but I don't know what the Hi-tech coating is so I'm a little hesitant to use them as there is a lot of information surfacing about some of these coatings corroding barrels by producing sulfuric acid with the introduction of condensation. I hope to use them as hog thumpers and possibly for Whitetail.

 

[Havok7416]

Can you provide some sources in reference to "a lot of time nfoation surfacing"? Many here use coated bullets extensively, myself included. This would be the first I'm hearing of corrosion issues and I do research the topic extensively.

Hi-Tek in a nutshell is nothing more than powder coat optimized for bullets. I have fired several tens of thousands of coated bullets at this point with zero issues relating to barrel deposits. Certainly nothing as as catastrophic as corrosion.

 

[Koolkustomer]

Moly is a sulfate when introduced to water can produce sulfuric acid. I'll try to link some data when I get time but i think that's another thread. Right now I'm just trying to find some loading advice for 300gr XTP's and I'm glad to hear that so many of you have a lot experience with coated lead with no destructive effects.

 

[Havok7416]

Moly coat is a whole different animal. Hi-Tek and powder coat are more like plastic and bond to the lead. It won't wipe off or smear.

As to load data, you can also check the powder manufacturer's websites. They have good data and may have what you are looking for.

 

[murf]

you might want to research trailboss powder. all the other data is too fast for your application.

luck,

murf

 

[dgod]

Amen to the TrailBoss Powder. If you were closer, I would meet up and get you taken care of with some Trailboss.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The new Hornady manual has data for their 300gr XTP bullet in the 45 Colt. The data is under the Ruger higher pressure data but the starting charge weights are reporting the velocities you are chasing. They are reporting velocities of 1,050 fps. Remember, your barrel is longer than a handgun barrel which will allow the powder to generate slightly higher velocities than you see in the load manuals. They list 6 powders including 2400, W296 and AA#9. I think I would go with AA#9 and I'm fairly sure you will get what you are looking for.

 

[Cannibul]

Look at Cowboy loads. They are all going to be subsonic. Many of them barely trickle out of the barrel.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Look at Cowboy loads. They are all going to be subsonic. Many of them barely trickle out of the barrel.

That is not what the OP is looking for, check what was written again.

 

[Koolkustomer]

Thank you very much for all of your feedback. I have been running the Trail Boss Cowboy loads through it but TB is not recommended for more than 70% of case capacity and I was specifically trying to Keyhole a 300 grainer as fast as possible without going supersonic. The issues that I was running into is that a lot of the loads are 110 or 296 which is not recommended for downloading and as I don't know how that applies to some of the other powders I was hoping that there was expertise here to help me with that. It looks like the #9 maybe a way to go. I will try to get ahold of that Hornady manual.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thank you very much for all of your feedback. I have been running the Trail Boss Cowboy loads through it but TB is not recommended for more than 70% of case capacity and I was specifically trying to Keyhole a 300 grainer as fast as possible without going supersonic.

Who told you Trail Boss should not be used with more than 70% of case capacity? The 70% numbers the starting charge and you can go to 100% of case capacity minus what the bullet takes up WITHOUT compressing the powder. Do not compress TB.

I recommend you go to the Hodgdon site and read what they say about Trail Boss or read the link from Hodgdon I'm providing below.
http://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trail-boss-reduced-loads-r_p.pdf

 

[ZGunner]

What about Tight Group? Just glancing at published data and velocities it looks like it would be in your ballpark out of the 11" tube. That is, when using the Ruger only load data.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

What about Tight Group? Just glancing at published data and velocities it looks like it would be in your ballpark out of the 11" tube. That is, when using the Ruger only load data.

IMO Tightgroup is a terrible powder for the 45 Colt. You won't even be able to see the powder in the case and with that little powder in such a large case powder position may be a problem.

 

[Koolkustomer]

Who told you Trail Boss should not be used with more than 70% of case capacity? The 70% numbers the starting charge and you can go to 100% of case capacity minus what the bullet takes up WITHOUT compressing the powder. Do not compress TB.

I recommend you go to the Hodgdon site and read what they say about Trail Boss or read the link from Hodgdon I'm providing below.
http://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trail-boss-reduced-loads-r_p.pdf

I have read the document you provided before and unfortunately read it wrong. I do a lot of my reading late at night. That's my excuse and I'm sticking with it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention as I was under a misconception about the 70%.

 

[dgod]

I can remember when TB was not available, and I was trying to workup Subsonic loads... I read somewhere about using a known low volume powder then tearing a sheet of TP into 4 squares, pack 1 square on top of the powder with a small dowel rod to hold it against the powder. Then load as planned. When it is shot, you will think it has started to snow. I have also heard of using dryer sheets quartered, I'm told that they have a nice fragrance. (Haven't tried this one)... The First one... Yup, and it worked for me, but I was concerned with it becoming stuck in the an, so I discontinued, then stocked up on TB....

 

[GarrettJ]

You can find 300 gr. jacketed load data at http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

The regular .45 Colt loads give velocities in the 600-700 fps range. But go to the "Ruger only" loads gives you some loads in the 1000 and up range. Should be able to get one of those to work for you.

 

[GarrettJ]

Hi-Tek in a nutshell is nothing more than powder coat optimized for bullets. I have fired several tens of thousands of coated bullets at this point with zero issues relating to barrel deposits.

I agree that I also have not seen issues with barrel deposits. But I have stopped shooting coated bullets through my silencers after severely crapping up one of my cans with just a few thousand rounds.

After that I ran a test using the end cap on a muzzle brake to test buildup. By slugging barrels, I find many 9mm barrels run on the large side. So a .356" or even a .357" bullet may be on the small side for the bore. For whatever reason, the Hi Tec coating does not plate out in the bore, but makes a mess in any downstream attachment.

Using a pair of end caps, I ran 400 rounds through the same barrel (cleaned between tests) and weighed each end cap before and after to determine deposit weight.

End result was the better fit .358" bullet produced about 1/3 as much deposit. And the deposit was very hard and took a bit of work to scrub off. Not something I want to be cleaning off the guts of my silencers.

I then repeated the test using .3555" Berrys plated bullets. These were also undersized to the bore. But 400 rounds here produced a whopping 2.2 gr. deposit, compared to 16.1 gr. and 40.3 gr. With the two coated bullets.

You can see how much cleaner the copper plated bullets run. Jacketed tend to give similar results.

 

[Havok7416]

GarrettJ, that is certainly interesting. I appreciate you sharing that. I have been looking at a suppressor for my new .300 Blackout and I had planned to run coated bullets among others through it. As most rifle suppressors do not come apart, this is important. Perhaps at higher velocity it might blow more of it out? I guess I'd have to test it.

 

[GarrettJ]

I would not expect higher velocity to make things better. For 300BLK, there are a number of good jacketed bullets out there. I recently saw a 180 gr plated bullet that might be interesting for subsonic use.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...ameter-subsonic-180-grain-plated-hollow-point

 

[midland man]

I load sierra 300gr jsp with 20.8gr h110 powder in my 45 colt now these are ruger only loads but I shoot this in both my rossi 92 16in barreled rifles! I also load 6.8gr greendot with my cast 250gr lead bullet out of a singlecavity old lyman mold part# 454 190 in which is no longer made but is made in a double cavity mold now! I lube the bullets with lee alox then coat them with baby powder to keep the dirt from attaching to the bullets! so this shoots super good plus I size these lead bullets with a .457 dia lee sizer as they drop around .460 and I get zero leading and super accurate loads in both rifles and my two heritage big bore revolvers! so I hope my data can help!!

 

[Koolkustomer]

Update 14.0 grs AA#9 980 to 1080 fps w/ 12" barrel on a nice day @ 1000' MSL. Kind of a wide spread "100 fps" but the best so far, maybe AA#7 or 4100 ??

 

[GooseGestapo]

LongShot, Unique, or Universal is what you are looking for.
Also, you will need a chronograph. Under $100.
I don't use 300gr XTP as I have no need. I do however cast, and shoot my S&W 625 Mountain Gun and Winchester M1894 "Legacy" XTR w/24" bbl.
With 8.2gr of Universal under a Lee 255gr RFN I get 1,050fps from the rifle. It's no louder than a .22 subsonic (though like a deep voiced .22) and bullets striking an armadillo is louder than muzzle blast. This load is an "accuracy" load and is just barely above Colt S/A safe pressure.
The M1894 is VERY accurate with a Hornady 250XTP over 20.0gr of #2400, but is running 1,700fps. Not exactly quiet however. I have loaded 18.5gr #2400 under a 300gr Lee FNGC, for 1,500fps, but that doesn't help you. At subsonic speeds, the "slow burners" such as #2400, #9, H110/296, and LilGun won't burn efficiently.

Remember, your Rossi is somewhat stronger than a Colt S/A which is the standard for published data. I personally think that LongShot will likely give you near transonic velocities. Hodgdon published data (Ruger/TC data) shows a 300gr Speer JFN from a 7.5"bbl with 11.2gr LongShot giving 1,005fps. Max is 12.5 for 1,136 which is well above supersonic. Too fast for your purposes. But it gives you the picture of how much leeway you have.

I load 9.2gr under a 270gr RCBS SWC for my 625, and it burns very cleanly. I load 11.2 to make the Wyoming minimum, but is excessive for any practical use. 9.2 burns very cleanly and is profoundly accurate. SD under 10.

If you have some Titegroup, they show 7.5gr for 851fps and max 9.0 for 1,004 at 28,500. For me, that is a little too close to the edge, and is such a small charge, a double charge might go unnoticed until the trigger is pulled.NOT GOOD!!!

 

[jmorris]

The suggestions for small charges of fast powder are along the lines of what I have found to work best as subsonic "quite" loads.

Trailboss is a good powder for subsonic and light loads being that it is so bulky and 70% is the suggested starting load then work up from there.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

But I have never found trailboss the best powder for suppressed pistol loads. Might be worth trying though.

None of the coatings people are using on cast bullets are molybdenum or "moly", years ago I did try it though, on cast bullets. I used Lyman's moly coat kit and they turned out beautiful but were horrendous at fouling the barrel. Have the folks you might buy bullets from send you an MSDS sheet on the coating, tell them you want to shoot them indoors and want to know what your going to be exposed to. Then you will know the acual amount of "moly" they contain. Always best to be armed with accurate information when making decisions.