.45 Colt vs .30-30 winchester

[Sentryau2]

Well I'm in the mood for a good rifle and I've got it narrowed down to these two choices for the lead I'll be slinging.
It will be used for large hogs, dear, and possibly large black bear. If you could cast and reload what caliber would you go with keeping in mind all shots would be taken inside of 75 yards. Say this is also a gun you want to shoot ALOT.
Can you reload either with black powder if you wanted too? I'm not exactly knowledgeable on what cartridges can be loaded and used with black powder successfully. I've been looking at raw numbers and it seems the .30-30 outperforms the .45 when it comes to velocity and energy but how about penetration and real world performance?

 

[69Precision]

30-30 has way more energy. If I were killing things that would be my choice. That said, you hit something in the boiler room with a good 45 load and it's gonna die.

 

[ontarget]

Not sure I'd choose either of them for black bear.

 

[redbullitt]

Both should do just fine with black powder in a pinch.

30 30 is a FANTASTIC cast bullet caliber, just as good as the 44 mag and the 4570 with cast. The neck is very good for cast bullets and velocity will be pretty much on par with jacketed loadings. Whats not to like there? Get yourself a nice WIDE FLAT NOSE bullet, ranch dog and NOE makes some good stuff. I like the 165g FN a lot in mine.

That 45 colt will do well too.

Any reason you're not looking at a 44 mag? It can do everything the 45 colt can and more in a carbine I would think. That might give you more load options and do more of what you want. You can shoot at light plinker level and all the way up to hot mag levels. a 310g hard cast bullet is hard to argue with at carbine velocity.

 

[rcmodel]

The 30-30 Winchester was never a black powder cartridge.

The .45 Colt was.



As for penetration?

The .45 Colt was selected by the Army in 1873 for shooting horses out from under riders with a revolver.
So, it will kill hogs out of a carbine at 75 yards.

In fact, with a SWC bullet, it will penetrate further then the 30-30 with a jacketed soft-point.

On the other-hand, the 30-30 Win offers higher velocity, and flatter trajectory at longer range.

It's a good hunting caliber that has killed everything that walks, crawls, shuffles, slithers, or creeps up in the dark to wipe you out!

So the choice is still up to you.

But keep in mind that one is a handgun round, and the other is a rifle round.

rc

 

[BullRunBear]

With black powder cartridges I prefer straight wall cases. Keep in mind you will have to clean the gun carefully, like any muzzle loader, but the cases as well. It's easier to wash and dry straight wall brass than bottle neck cases. BP cartridge is fun to load and shoot. Never hunted with them, though.

Haven't started playing with the cartridge yet but I've read the 30-30 is a great cast bullet round and can be loaded with them from mouse fart levels to full power. It certainly works for 30-06.

Jeff

 

[bannockburn]

Not really an apples to apples comparison but in my case I would go with the .45 Colt because: 1) I have several revolvers in that caliber, and 2) I already reload for that caliber.

 

[T.R.]

One is a rifle cartridge and the other choice is a revolver cartridge. Both are lethal within their respective limitations but 30-30 has much more longer distance capability. For bear hunting, I'd choose the 30-30 for its higher energy.

TR

 

[samweller]

I live in Ga. and have hunted with a 30/30 since high school. It is my favorite caliber for the type of game and the kinds of shots you make around here. I also love lever guns. With 170 gr. bullets, it should be fine for black bear. I regularly hunt deer, hogs, and shoot coyotes with mine. Most of my shots at anything are well under 100 yds, most probably around 40-60 yds. I shoot iron sights with a Marlin 336. There was a story in the paper a few years back about a ranger out in one of the grizzly states who was charged by a grizzly. He killed it with a 30/30, but it took 3 shots. The only question I had was, if you live in a state with grizzlies, why would you not carry a .308 or something with a bit more punch.

The 30/30 will give you a lot more versatility than the .45.

 

[Art Eatman]

Comparative effectiveness for a clean kill would vary with range. For shots beyond 100 yards, I'd definitely prefer the .30-30. Inside of 50 yards, either. 50 to 100, I guess, would be subject to argument.

 

[kBob]

Despite having a .45 Colt (I would have said Long Colt but there are folks that explode at that) Blackhawk I would go with the .30-30.

To paraphrase W.C. Fields "When I wants a revolver, I shoots a revolver, when I wants a rifle, I shoots a rifle."

If reloading with BP really is an issue then the .45 is your only choice of those two.

One of the early "issues" with the .30-30 was that folks found that with full bore BP handloads the bullets tended to strip the rifling and lead badly even when hard. Accuracy beyond rock throwing distance supposedly suffered. When Winchester introduced the .32 Winchester Special they made it to be able to use the BP and same bullets as various .32s that proceeded it AND they gave the rifles a slower twist.

If you just have to have the ability to use BP then the .45 Colt makes more sense between those choices.......but if you could find a nice Winchester 94 in .32 Special I would choose that if BP were an issue.

Be aware that BP does not play well with modern bullet lubes and needs its own "special" bullet lube to not leave hard to clean crud behind. Check with THRs BP board for more on that and tell them what you are considering doing with the BP cartridge loads.

Discarding the ability to use BP there would be no contest for me and the .30-30 in a Winchester 94 would be my choice or one of the bolt actions. Marlins do not play as well with lead bullets at higher velocities.

As has been noted the .30-30 is just plain versatile. Factory loads of 150 are local white tail deer favorites and 170 for things that might get you back. Handloading allows a wide range of uses......round ball and a pistol powder can give you a 60 grain, .30, bullet at 750 to 1200 fps, not stellar accuracy but minute of swamp bunny head or squirrel body at 25 yards. Single loading the Lever, tube feeders can allow you to use pointed bullets to give you a bit more useable range (and put those 7.62x39 shooters to shame). A hard cast bullet from pistol weights up can be launched again at speeds of "oh look there it goes" to well into the super sonic.

Granted I can not make Unique or 3031 powder at home but in a situation where you could not get either, can you gather the materials , purify, and combine and screen BP? Know how to participate salt peter from a liquid? Know where in a survival situation you can get sulpher? What kinds of charcoal give the best results and is that wood available locally?

Of course if your BP interest is just sporting, well go for it.

-kBob

 

[MEHavey]

large hogs, dear, and possibly large black
bear. If you could cast and reloadall shots would
be taken inside of 75 yards. ...this is also a gun you
want to shoot A LOT.

45 Colt in a `94 Marlin.

Shooting a 340gr RNFP @ 1,400fps*, it is point-blank ±1½" from
muzzle to 95yards. and will kill anything you mentioned... dead.

...and of course you can just shoot the regular cowboy stuff all
day long ... and kill 90% of everything you mentioned as well.



* This load uses either VV-N110 or W296/H110

 

[Sunray]

.30-30 Winchester was never BP.
A rifle I'd want to shoot ALOT would not be a lever action .30-30. Far too much felt recoil for the power of the cartridge in that light of rifle. At least not a 6 to 7 pound Win 94.
"...Not sure I'd choose either of them for black bear..." Yogi is not armoured. Regular .30-30 150 grain deer loads will do nicely.
What's a dear?

 

[SwampWolf]

QUOTE:.......but if you could find a nice Winchester 94 in .32 Special I would choose that if BP were an issue.

I'm curious as to why you might think the .32 Special cartridge is more appropriate for using black powder than the 30-30 is. If you do, that is.

 

[The Big D]

For largish animals like large black bear, I would take .30-30 for the higher sectional density. Get something with a 1 in 10" twist so you can use heavy bullets.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I vote 30-30.

 

[BCRider]

If black powder shooting is important to you then I'd suggest that a better choice would be between your .45Colt and .38-55. .38-55 was one of the straight walled "proper" black powder cartridges. So you avoid any issues of using the bottleneck cased .30-30 if you want to load them with proper black powder.

If the .38-55 option sounds interesting then read around about this round. There's a little mixed up sizing in the course of this round's history and you'll want to slug the bore of any rifle you find to figure out what size bullets to use. It's a lovely light recoil round to shoot but it's got a bit of a confused history. So you want to do your homework in regards to what dies to get and what size bullets to use.

Another interesting option if you're open to choices other than just those two might be a Marlin in .444Marlin. A straight walled case that should be able to hold up around 55 to 60gns of black powder behind a .429" 240gn cast bullet. That would put it out in front of the .45Colt by a little for muzzle velocity. It's not into .44Mag territory but if you want to shoot black powder it holds enough capacity to get the job done.

If this hits a chord with you I'd suggest you look into the sort of rifling used in the Marlin .444 rifles. If it uses the Marlin Microgroove stuff then likely easier to look at another option. Cast bullets CAN be shot well from microgroove barrels but it's a bit of a job finding just the right combination. At that point it's just easier to stick with regular rifling that is cast lead friendly.

 

[MEHavey]

If one is going to consider jumping to to a 444, one ought
to just go ahead w/ a`95 Marlin/45-70. At least you can
get "plinking" ammunition for that.

More seriously, the 45 Colt/340gr LRNFP doing 1,400 in a
`94 Marlin is still your best all-round bet if a handloader.
(and the `94/`95 Marlins are deep-groove/Ballard rifled)

 

[VoodooMountain]

I vote 45lc BUT only in a gun that can handle the hot loads that really make ithis caliber shine. Maybe a 454 levergun is in order?
You could also download 45/70 I suppose as well.

 

[Malamute]

QUOTE:.......but if you could find a nice Winchester 94 in .32 Special I would choose that if BP were an issue.

I'm curious as to why you might think the .32 Special cartridge is more appropriate for using black powder than the 30-30 is. If you do, that is.

I had another old ad, but didnt see it when I just looked.

 

[zb338]

If you want to shoot black powder and kill stuff the only
cartridge for you would be the 45/70. It's been killing
stuff for way before you and I were born.

Zeke

 

[Malamute]

If you want to shoot black powder and kill stuff the only
cartridge for you would be the 45/70. It's been killing
stuff for way before you and I were born.

Im sure theres others that work just fine as well.

 

[BigBore45]

In the right gun the .45 colt can be loaded to outperform the 30-30 in every way but trajectory out to 150-175 yards. But for 75 yards and closer it rivals a .308 Winchester in power with the right load. Also can be loaded with black powder and is no slouching round then. I have taken both hogs and deer. Would not hesitate on a black bear inside 125 yards either. Inside 50 yards I would not hesitate on a brown bear. In my .45 Colt I run a 325 grain flat nose semi jacketed at 1800 fps out of a 20" win. 94 ae. Second load is a 240 gr. Xtp mag at 2200 fps.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

If I wanted to shoot alot and hunt a little, I would go .45 Colt.

 

[midland man]

I own a rossi 92 16in barrel 45c and I load a sierra 300gr jsp with 20.8gr hodgdon h110 and this is a ruger only load I shoot in my rossi and it will perform very well and very accurate!! I love this load plus I also load a mbc 250gr cast lead 45 caliber lfp bullet with 6.8gr greendot for my 45c and it loves both of these loads! plus I also load for my win 94 30-30 and I load 170gr jsp 33.6gr 760 powder and I also load 165gr mbc hi-tek lead coated bullet and use 4759 powder and it works very well! but with what you described I would go with the 45 colt in rossi 92 action as it can handle the ruger only loads, I know I been doing it!!