Josey
member
OK. 45 GAP is here. What are the chances that we will see 45 GAP conversions for retrofitting current 9MM autoloaders? Would there be any demand? I could see a CZ with 9MM, a Kadet 22 conversion and a 45 GAP conversion.
45 GAP conversions?
- Thread starter Josey
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George Hill
Member
I would love a CZ-75 in .45GAP... or a Browning Hi Power... or a Kahr... or a SIG P239... or an XD... Oh wait... the XD is already coming.
Josey
member
I would consider a BHP in 9MM with 22 and 45 GAP conversions. I could see the need for a shock buff and probably a dedicated upper with sights.
PCRCCW
Member
Any 9mm to 45 conversion would need a different slide/top end assy. The breech of the 9mm Slide wont cross over to a 45. The cost effectiveness of this would almost dictate the cost of another gun.............IMO, anyway.
Shoot well............
Shoot well............
Josey
member
Sorry, the breech face doesn't enter into it. THAT is the reason a 45 GAP can work in a 9MM platform.
BluesBear
member
You'll still need a new and probably wider slide. And of course a frame that can handle the diameter of a .45 calibre cartridge as well as the wider slide.
The staggering of the larger cartridge in a doublestack 9mm frame will probably require a new magazine also.
I don't know if the higher pressures of the .45gap will be of any problem or not since the .45gap operates at .45acp+P pressures.
Other than that the .45gap conversion units should work wonderfully on most 9mm pistols. And it might even be cheaper than a whole new gun.
Tamara
Senior Member
BluesBear,
Which is still a lower pressure than .40 or 9mm.
Which is still a lower pressure than .40 or 9mm.
Tamara
Senior Member
Josey,
What then, pray tell, does the case head rest against when fired?
(HINT: Go look at a .41 AE cartridge if you want to see what needs to be done to accomodate a 9mm breech face. If you want to do a .45 GAP, you'll need a whole new top end, as the case head diameters are incompatible.)
What then, pray tell, does the case head rest against when fired?
(HINT: Go look at a .41 AE cartridge if you want to see what needs to be done to accomodate a 9mm breech face. If you want to do a .45 GAP, you'll need a whole new top end, as the case head diameters are incompatible.)
W Turner
Member
I would love to see a .45GAP conversion upper for a CZ 75B. It would probably consist of a slide, barrel, recoil spring, and two mags.
Mino
Mino
George Hill
Member
A .45GAP CZ-75... Think of the excellent CZ-97, but one that feels and handles like a 75. Take a 97 slide and mentally mesh that to a 75 frame...
Now THAT is an attractive possibility.
Now THAT is an attractive possibility.
Josey
member
I see how the XD pulls it off. The slide is beefier to begin with. What I was possibly misreferencing was that the 45 GAP is a rebated head cartridge. It is a 9MM head on a short and thinwalled 45 cartridge. The appeal is that for manufacturers a single stack magazine can be used, 9MM parts such as extractors, ejectors and other functional parts don't need to be reinvented. The basic difference is only the barrel and recoil springs. The need for a front bushing would be obviated for pistols that use same. A magazine would be needed.
Tamara
Senior Member
Josey,
No, it isn't.
The .45 GAP case head is considerably larger than the 9mm case head.
No, it isn't.
The .45 GAP case head is considerably larger than the 9mm case head.
Zundfolge
Member
I keep hearing Kahr MK45GAP being whispered by the voices in my head 
Yup. However the OAL is shorter then a 9mm.
Here's Speer's technical brief on the .45GAP: http://www.miragetechnologies.net/45_gap_technical_brief.htm
Yup. However the OAL is shorter then a 9mm.
Here's Speer's technical brief on the .45GAP: http://www.miragetechnologies.net/45_gap_technical_brief.htm
BluesBear
member
Regarding the rebated rim on the .45gap
As you can see the rebate is almost neglible.
Hre's a comparison of .40S&W, .45acp & .45gap
Look at the right edge of the photo. It's cropped righ on the edge of the case.
Notice the rim. The rebate is almost imperceptible.
Notice the size of the .40S&W compare it to the .45gap. .45gap is larger than .40 which is larger than 9mm.
Case............Length.................... Case Size Comparison................Max. Case Length
.45 ACP...0.898â€/22.81mm...0.143â€/3.63mm longer than the .45 GAP...1.275â€/32.39mm
.40 S&W...0.850â€/21.59mm..0.095â€/2.41mm longer than the .45 GAP...1.135â€/28.83mm
.45 GAP....0.755â€/19.18mm..0.143â€/3.63mm shorter than the .45 ACP..1.080â€/27.43mm
9 mm........0.754â€/19.15mm..0.001â€/0.03mm shorter than the .45 GAP..1.168â€/29.67mm
Not even close!
As you can see the rebate is almost neglible.
Hre's a comparison of .40S&W, .45acp & .45gap
Look at the right edge of the photo. It's cropped righ on the edge of the case.
Notice the rim. The rebate is almost imperceptible.
Notice the size of the .40S&W compare it to the .45gap. .45gap is larger than .40 which is larger than 9mm.
Case............Length.................... Case Size Comparison................Max. Case Length
.45 ACP...0.898â€/22.81mm...0.143â€/3.63mm longer than the .45 GAP...1.275â€/32.39mm
.40 S&W...0.850â€/21.59mm..0.095â€/2.41mm longer than the .45 GAP...1.135â€/28.83mm
.45 GAP....0.755â€/19.18mm..0.143â€/3.63mm shorter than the .45 ACP..1.080â€/27.43mm
9 mm........0.754â€/19.15mm..0.001â€/0.03mm shorter than the .45 GAP..1.168â€/29.67mm
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BluesBear
member
It very well could be if you are attempting to make it work within the same dimensions as a 9mm.
And since the .45gap is operating at those higger pressures just to EQUAL .45acp performance you know that somebody, somewhere is going to try and push it even higher.
Just as you can't load a .45 Colt to the same pressures as a .41 or .44 magnum in an N-frame size cylinder you might have problems loading a .45 to higher pressures in a 9mm sized vessel.
You keep talking about the GAP operating at "those higher pressures" compared to the ACP--a 2Kpsi difference.
Then on the other hand, you discount the 12Kpsi difference between the 40S&W/9mm and the GAP--saying that the 23Kpsi GAP may push the limits in a 35Kpsi 40S&W or 9mm gun.
Seems odd to be concerned about 2Kpsi and at the same time imply that 12Kpsi isn't significant.
If that's really what you're saying, then what cartridge would you recommend for someone to reload if they tell you up front that they're not going to follow published guidelines?
Then on the other hand, you discount the 12Kpsi difference between the 40S&W/9mm and the GAP--saying that the 23Kpsi GAP may push the limits in a 35Kpsi 40S&W or 9mm gun.
Seems odd to be concerned about 2Kpsi and at the same time imply that 12Kpsi isn't significant.
I find it odd to criticize a cartridge based on the idea that some people will be foolish when they reload it.
If that's really what you're saying, then what cartridge would you recommend for someone to reload if they tell you up front that they're not going to follow published guidelines?
BluesBear
member
John you seem to be missing my point.
Let me see if I can clarify it a little better.
My point is that in a gun designed for 9mm and therefore sized for a cartridge with a diameter ranging from .380" to .391" perhaps just MIGHT have a possible problem, when chambered for a cartridge with a diameter of .473" to .476".
Now I don't forsee any problem in a 1911 pattern sized gun. But there are many smaller 9mm pistols out there. And in those smaller pistols there could maybe, just might be a possible problem that maybe, could preclude them being made in .45gap.
Let me see if I can clarify it a little better.
My point is that in a gun designed for 9mm and therefore sized for a cartridge with a diameter ranging from .380" to .391" perhaps just MIGHT have a possible problem, when chambered for a cartridge with a diameter of .473" to .476".
Now I don't forsee any problem in a 1911 pattern sized gun. But there are many smaller 9mm pistols out there. And in those smaller pistols there could maybe, just might be a possible problem that maybe, could preclude them being made in .45gap.
Josey
member
I was misinformed. (hang dog face) I had gotten my information from a friend who is usually accurate. He had a brain fade. I stand corrected.
Tamara
Senior Member
JohnKSa,
The point BluesBear is trying to make is perfectly illustrated by the Mighty Morphin' Power Slide on the G37. When I saw it at SHOT last year, it had a perfectly normal G17/22/31 slide on it. When the first one showed up in the shop, it had a G20/21-width slide on it. Apparently the guys at Glock finally figured that tissue-paper-thin chamber walls, relatively high pressure, and a round with a built-in propensity for bullet setback were a bad combination. (...at least, this time around, they did.
)
The point BluesBear is trying to make is perfectly illustrated by the Mighty Morphin' Power Slide on the G37. When I saw it at SHOT last year, it had a perfectly normal G17/22/31 slide on it. When the first one showed up in the shop, it had a G20/21-width slide on it. Apparently the guys at Glock finally figured that tissue-paper-thin chamber walls, relatively high pressure, and a round with a built-in propensity for bullet setback were a bad combination. (...at least, this time around, they did.
)Ok, less metal = less pressure tolerance.
That makes sense.
Matter of fact, I kind of think that may be the reason we see so many more "incidents" with the .40 guns than with the 9mm guns. Same pressure but less metal.
That makes sense.
Matter of fact, I kind of think that may be the reason we see so many more "incidents" with the .40 guns than with the 9mm guns. Same pressure but less metal.
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