45acp 200gr lswc and failure to feed

[Jwbfx4]

45acp is the first thing I ever loaded. Haven’t loaded any in 5 years or so. Got bit by the revolver bug and mainly been on 357mag, 44mag, and 45lc.

I loaded up some 200gr Summers coated lead SWC at 1.250 OAL with a charge of 5.5grs of W231. The grouping was awesome...very accurate load, but I had a few failure to feed. While loading I dropped all of these into the barrel to confirm that the OAL was good. It looks like the brass was getting caught on the top. It was like the brass was dug into a little bit probably a little less than 1/8” from the end of the case toward the bullet. Racking the slide didn’t get it to go I would have to wiggle it out of there. After I got home I checked a few pieces and the only thing I seen that was not quite right was maybe the taper crimp. Measure .4725-.473. When I was crimping though it looked like the brass was getting worked good on the end so I didn’t add anymore.

Think the crimp could be my issue? Nothing on the lead bullet looked like it dragged anywhere.

Still very much a rookie and looking for a little guidance. Thanks.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

45 acp headspaces on the case mouth. The "crimp" should be just enough to remove any bell in the case.
I have found that adjusting the seating depth of SWC bullets usually fixes feeding problems.

 

[Jim Watson]

Is the rim failing to come up under the extractor or is it not rising that far?

If not, you have a stem bind - three point jam.
I'd try more taper crimp, and tinker with the OAL.

If that does not straighten it out you can look into having the chamber mouth radiused.
Or just do what I did. Go to roundnose.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

My first thought when looking at the pic you posted was that your extractor was the culprit. But if it feeds factory FMJ all right then the extractor is probably not the problem.

Can you post a pic that shows the damage to the brass?

Can you confirm the damage was on the top side of the case, not the bottom?

FWIW, I crimp to .470" and run the reloaded rounds through a Lee factory crimp die. These are secondary to whatever is going on with yours and simply informational.

 

[Jwbfx4]

Best picture I could get of the brass.

I can’t say 100% the damage was on the top but that’s what I felt like. I guess I need to do some more testing to confirm.

I have a Lee FCD but did not use it. Guess I could try it on a few rounds just to see how that turns out.

Guess I’ll play with a few different things and see what I come up with.

Just was hoping to get a few opinions. Thanks for that!

 

[docv]

Three point jam. Not your crimp. Do you hear a ka-chuck when rounds feed? It could be mag related. What magazine lip profile are you using?

 

[Walkalong]

It could be mag related.

My first thought as well.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

That line on the brass looks like the juncture between the barrel ramp and the chamber. You might consider very gently rounding that sharp edge. A 1911 'smith I know rounds that edge using a round ruby stone that he rapidly rubs left and right across the edge until the sound the stone makes as it passes over the steel changes. What that means is that very, very little metal is removed.

Polishing compound on a felt bob would take care of this. Just a quick pass or two should be enough.

As far as magazines, I prefer Check-Mate hybrid feed lips above all others. There's not another magazine that feeds as smoothly, A year or so ago I ran a three day series of feeding tests using Check-Mate, Tripp, Wilson, McCormick, and a couple other manufacturers magazines using a dozen different kinds of factory ammo (FMJ, JHP) as well as reloads (200gr SWC from Precision Bullets). However, Check-Mate mags sometimes need a little tweaking of the followers to run 100%.

Here's a link to the kind of tweaks that may be necessary: https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=994506

 

[Walkalong]

Very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very........very little.

Try a different mag.

 

[Jwbfx4]

Honestly didn’t even think about the mag. I’ll have to look and see which mags I had in my bag that day. Will also try a different one or two when I can get back to the range.

 

[drband]

That line on the brass looks like the juncture between the barrel ramp and the chamber. You might consider very gently rounding that sharp edge.

Good advice! It won’t take much!

Then, check your mags!

 

[joneb]

I have had trouble with SWC in my Colt 70's ser. a shorter COL may help. I use TC FP or RN now with no issues.
For lead and plated bullet I seat and crimp in two steps.

 

[243winxb]

Lube the magazine.
Reduce powder to 5 grs. Changing slide timing.
Adjust extractor so case rim slides up the bolt face better.

Just some things to try.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

Lube the magazine.

Isn't this one of the cardinal sins of semi-autos that can allow for inertia feeds to occur?

 

[Steve in Allentown]

I have had trouble with SWC in my Colt 70's ser. a shorter COL may help.

I have an early 1980's vintage Colt Government series 70 that had feeding problems which, like you, I cured by also seating the bullets much deeper than 1.25". After some years I'd finally had enough and sent it off to a 1911 'smith who discovered the feed ramp was way out of spec. It was off center, too shallow, and too steep. He recut the ramp to 31.5 degrees and centered it. It's been feeding everything perfectly ever since including the 200gr LSWCs seated to 1.250".

 

[Blue68f100]

Looking at the bullet it appears to me that it may be too long. I have just a thumbnail thickest of the shoulder showing. Your about 2-3 times what I'm using. The shorter oal will help on feeding. And like said adj your crimp to .472" - 0.471" will help too, your a little fat.

 

[drband]

Hard to tell from the picture, but @Blue68f100 may be correct. Thumbnail thickness of shoulder showing above the case is a good description—and that’s about .030” if you want to use your calipers to check.
.471-.472” is perfect for crimp. (Try .472” first!)

If those don’t feed, then look at breaking the bottom edge of the throat-to-chamber transition as suggested earlier.

With all the foregoing, remember check mags first. It’s amazing how a good mag or fresh mag springs clear up 1911 feeding problems!

 

[Steve in Allentown]

Thumbnail thickness of shoulder showing above the case is a good description—and that’s about .030” . . .

I have a tough time accurately measuring this with calipers. Probably bad technique. I've found that measuring from the case base to the top of the SWC shoulder is easier and more repeatable. I like this distance to fall in the range .935" to .940".

 

[Steve in Allentown]

. . . you have a stem bind - three point jam.

Three point jams are ugly.

Diagnosing the problem can often be difficult. If you experience another malfunction that looks like the one in your picture, don't clear it. Instead firmly push the muzzle of the barrel against a solid surface like a wooden bench to push the barrel back. Do I really need to say, "Keep your finger off the trigger"? If the slide snaps forward and the barrel goes into battery then this three point jam is being caused by the nose of the bullet pushing the barrel forward during the feeding cycle. This can be caused by an incorrect frame feed ramp angle, incorrect barrel ramp angle, and/or lack of a gap between the lower edge of the barrel ramp and the upper edge of the frame ramp. These need to be corrected by a real 1911 'smith.

If the slide doesn't snap forward then this jam is being caused by the extractor. This is something you can fix by fitting a new extractor. A tutorial on extractor fitting can be found here: https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=829865

Read this for some illuminating information about three point jams: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1911-failure-to-feed-diagnosis.649461/#post-8036483

Keep your finger off the trigger
Keep your booger hook off the bang switch

 

[Steve in Allentown]

In 1911 Tuner's link he mentions that hybrid feed lip magazines can often prevent three point jams because of the way they feed cartridges. My very favorite magazines are Check-Mate 8 round, extended tube, hybrid feed lip mags of which I must have amassed 30 or more of them.

Top Gun is my preferred vendor: https://www.topgunsupply.com/check-...-full-size-1911-magazine-cm45-8-s-rb-ext.html

 

[Steve in Allentown]

Here are some links to information about Check-Mate mags, issues they might have, and how to fix these issues. You could say I have some experience with these mags.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=992340&highlight=Checkmate

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=982578&highlight=Checkmate

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=975546

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=982578

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=960850&highlight=Checkmate

 

[ATLDave]

Yeah, that's an extremely common issue with 1911's and SWC's. Do you have a case gauge? That may give you (further) confirmation that it isn't an out-of-spec-ammo issue.

As others have said, magazine changes are the easiest attempted fix. Other potential contributors are roughness on the roof of the chamber, roughness on the lower breech face, too much extractor tension, and too much recoil spring relative to mag spring and recoil.

And sometimes a 1911 just won't eat a particular nose profile. That's why you need a 45ACP revolver... to dispose of all the bullets your 1911 won't digest!

 

[Chuck R.]

I've got a Les Baer Concept V that just developed the same issue after over 30k without a problem.

Changed SWC bullets with a slightly different profile and started getting nose dives from slide lock. Increased OAL and fixed the nose dives, but started getting 3points. Had to find the "sweet spot" for that SWC profile.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

And sometimes a 1911 just won't eat a particular nose profile. That's why you need a 45ACP revolver... to dispose of all the bullets your 1911 won't digest!

Yup, I've got a S&W 625 that has filled that role.

The following is not related to the OP's problem.

FWIW, I've recently been struggling with reloads that wouldn't allow a return-to-battery for a couple of 1911s that I'm putting together. I finally traced the source of the problem back to a lack of enough case mouth belling which resulted in a small amount of lead from the bullet being stripped from the bullet and getting squished against the case mouth.

Some years ago I got fed up with short and inconsistent length brass so I bought 500 pieces of Starline 460 Rowland brass and trimmed it to precisely .898" and reamed the primer pockets. I've been shooting them ever since. I had to make up 1,000 reloaded rounds for testing and final tweaking of the two 1911s and rather than add wear and tear to the cut down .460 Rowland brass I used the cases from the factory ammo that I ran through the pistols first.

I failed to adjust the seating die to account for the shorter factory brass.

Lesson learned.

I culled the rounds that wouldn't chamber correctly and plunk tested them in other 1911s. It turned out that they were fine in factory Colt barrels which have a longer leade than the Clymer reamer provided in the two new barrels. So, courtesy of Colt these rounds were recycled back into the dirt of the backstop.

 

[Jwbfx4]

Just wanted to come back with a couple updates. Ran 1 round through a Lee FCD. It worked the brass over good and squeezed the lead bullet down....

Experienced another failure to feed while chambering a round. Marked the brass and it is for sure catching on the bottom. Racking the slide back doesn’t free it so it hung up fairly well.

Measured how much of the shoulder is sticking out of the brass....very hard to tell accurately
but think it’s around .040.

Will do some testing with different magazines hopefully this weekend.