4Fg for cowboy loads

[gmaster805]

Yesterday I posted a question about 4Fg in a ROA. Conclusion is it is too fine for shooting C&B. The new question is I can find load data for 2F & 3F in 45 colt "cowboy" loads but not for 4F. Should I reduce the 3F data and if so by how much? Any help is welcome.

 

[J-Bar]

The ROA manual is online:

https://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/_manuals/oldArmy.pdf

See pages 10 and 11.

While the manual says the ROA can be used with 4FG powder, I wouldn't and never have. FFFFG should traditionally only be used in the flashpans of flintlocks.

You can safely use as much FFG or FFFG as you can get in an ROA chamber and still seat a ball. I think it would be rare to justify wasting that much powder. You can have a lot of fun with 20 to 25 grain powder charges with either granulation. For cowboy action competition, some folks load less than that in their ROAs, but it helps to have a rammer extension to seat the ball completely. CAS competition requires at least 1 cc (15 grains of powder) to meet the "smoke standard" in black powder competition categories.

 

[44 Dave]

For cowboy loads you won't be filling the brass and compressing it when setting the bullet.
I would think ffff under your filler would be no problem Would guess about 20 gr.
would ring steel with out much recoil,

 

[Prairie Dawg]

rom the Lyman Black Powder Handbook:
.36 1851 -- 7.5"
Gearhart Owen FFFg black powder
.375 Roundball

14 grains -- 6900 LUP -- 752 FPS
17 grains -- 7200 LUP -- 879 FPS
20 grains -- 8300 LUP -- 967 FPS
23 grains -- 8560 LUP -- 1017 FPS
26 grains -- 8600 LUP -- 1079 FPS
29 grains -- 9440 LUP -- 1097 FPS
************************
.36 1851
Gearhart Owen FFFFg black powder
.375 Roundball

14 grains -- 6900 LUP -- 884 FPS
17 grains -- 7240 LUP -- 924 FPS
20 grains -- 8460 LUP -- 1006 FPS
23 grains -- 8640 LUP -- 1027 FPS
26 grains -- 8820 LUP -- 1033 FPS
29 grains -- 9660 LUP -- 1090 FPS
******************
.44 1860 -- 8" barrel
Gearhart Owen FFFg black powder
.451 Roundball

19 grains -- 5540 LUP -- 706 FPS
22 grains -- 5540 LUP -- 752 FPS
25 grains -- 5780 LUP -- 805 FPS
28 grains -- 6380 LUP -- 885 FPS
31 grains -- 7060 LUP - 933 FPS
33 grains -- 7340 LUP -- 979 FPS
37 grains -- 7940 LUP -- 1032 FPS
********************
.44 1860 -- 8" barrel
Gearhart Owen FFFFg black powder
.451 Roundball

19 grains -- 5240 LUP -- 772 FPS
22 grains -- 5420 LUP -- 797 FPS
25 grains -- 6080 LUP -- 868 FPS
28 grains -- 6320 LUP -- 881 FPS
31 grains -- 6500 LUP -- 859 FPS
34 grains -- 7240 LUP -- 953 FPS
37 grains -- 7420 LUP -- 960 FPS
********************
This data shows that 4Fg does not create the huge pressure some think it does.
About the same as 3Fg.
I would not hesitate to use it in ROAs, which are stoutly built.
Altho, since cap guns tend to be more accurate with lighter loads, I would keep the loads at around 20 grains for cowboy loads.
That's plenty of powder for what we do.

As for dripping out the nipples, Treso nips have mighty small flame holes.
All my ROAs wear Treso nips.
I find they are more reliable than Ruger factory nips.
The gun is carried muzzle down anyway, so you won't lose an appreciable amount.
--Dawg

 

[44 Dave]

One thought on ffff would be if the stuff leaks out of the nipples when loading you will have a little extra smoke and mess on the recoil shield.

 

[StrawHat]

The powder you mentioned in the other thread was Clear Shot, a BP substitute. Substitutes have rules all their own. Stay with published sources of information.

 

[gmaster805]

I am sorry I didn't make it clear, I was referring to loading a 45 colt as a cowboy load. Decided it is too fine for C&B and I had found data on 3F & 2F for the 45 colt, have conversion cylinder. was thinking of using the 3F data -5% and work from there on the loads. Just want to burn up the powder without getting hurt or hurting the gun I know the ROA is stout but you never know, better safe than sorry.

 

[swathdiver]

Older ROA manuals do include 4Fg as being fine for shooting. I have shot it from others but it really shines when used with conicals and a powder charge 1/10 of bullet weight or thereabouts. SWISS 4FG is equivalent to 1860s Hazard Pistol Powder.

You cannot hurt an ROA with a full chamber of 4Fg BP. That being said, it's pointless to do so.

 

[whughett]

I am sorry I didn't make it clear, I was referring to loading a 45 colt as a cowboy load. Decided it is too fine for C&B and I had found data on 3F & 2F for the 45 colt, have conversion cylinder. was thinking of using the 3F data -5% and work from there on the loads. Just want to burn up the powder without getting hurt or hurting the gun I know the ROA is stout but you never know, better safe than sorry.

So you are asking about loading 45c cartridge cases with 4f powder. With out seeming to give advise is it not true that black powder is black powder regardless of the granulation.

If one can load 4f in a ROA chamber one should be able to load it into brass cartridges as well. I load 45C but have never had any 4f on hand. But if I did I would start with a 20 grain load, card and cereal filler and go from there.