5.56 for home defense?

[C-grunt]

A good .223/5.56 load that was developed for self defense, like the TAP rounds, will have a far lesser chance of exiting a bad guy than conventional FMJ. My 20 inch AR is loaded with 55 grn soft points. At the velocity those things are going, I would be surprised if anything exited.

I also have my family owned since 1939 single shot 16 gauge loaded with #1 buck shot as well.

Luckily for me all shots will have to pass through a couple walls and a cinderblock wall before getting to my neighbors house. My bedroom is at the back of my house so shooting towards the front of the house gives me the kitchen, several interior walls, a laundry room and a garage before it gets out of the front.

 

[SnakeLogan]

The goal in close range is instant incapacitation. Even if a 223 round destroys the BG's heart, without hitting the spinal column, he'll have enough oxygenated blood in his brain for wilful action for at least 10 seconds. That's long enough for him to run forward and stab/attack you with a bat. As I said, a shotgun greatly increases the chance of hitting the CNS, but use what you're comfortable.

 

[mljdeckard]

Barnes Varmint Grenades?

For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, go to Barnes Bullets' web page and watch the video.

First of all, I like using Barnes Bullets whenever I can because they're local, anyway, but for those of us who would use an AR for HD, but we're picky about the load, we try to use specific loads like Hornady TAP, would 5.56 loaded with Barnes Varmint Grenades not be perfect?

 

[lzpnvsi]

The Box O' Truth

Tests of various types of ammo and penetration through dry wall:-

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

 

[edrice]

I decided this the other night when I woke up having slept on my arm wrong. It was completely asleep and useless. If someone had woken me up while breaking in, and all I had was a long gun, I would have been pretty much screwed.

Do like I do. Get out of bed and wave the dead arm around in the dark and smack him with it until it comes back to life.

Sorry. The image came to mind and my laughing apparatus was momentarily paralyzed.

Ed

 

[woodfiend]

DO NOT listen to Ignition Override. That information could seriously hurt someone. WE ALL know what the penetration of 7.62x39 is like REGARDLESS if it is softpoint, FMJ, or hollowpoint. It is DANGEROUS, if others are close.

#4 12 guage is great for home defense. 5.56 would probably be a good choice as well, but with others around, FMJ would not be the best idea. Not as bad as 7.62x39, but there are other options. I would load your weapon with lighter hollowpoints, or softpoints.

 

[mljdeckard]

Um, I don't know AT ALL that 7.62x39 is more likely to overpenetrate than 5.56, especially fmj.

 

[Rifleman 173]

If you are going to use a rifle for home defense: go big or go home.

Many people forget that the rifle was, for many years, the primary firearm used to hunt wild game and to protect a homestead and family. America used to be known as "The Home of the Best Riflemen." Somewhere along the way and the passing years people began to think of the rifle as bad for home defense and the handgun as good for it. Trouble is that 70% of all people shot with handguns survive. When the light bulb finally went on, people then thought that the shotgun was God's gift to home defense. Now some of us are getting back to our basics in the form of the rifle for practical defense purposes. Hence the patrol or police rifles returning to squad cars and police vehicles.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH USING A RIFLE OR ONE WELL PLACED RIFLE SHOT TO DEFEND YOURSELF, YOUR FAMILY OR YOUR NATION!!! The trouble is that too many people are thinking about using little, tiny bullets instead of a large or medium caliber bullet to drop the bad guy. Why shoot 4, 5 or more tiny, little bullets to stop Johnnie Dirtbag when one well placed shot in a .30 caliber or larger projectile can do the job? Believe me, when the brown material hits the rotary device a good caliber bullet is needed. Do NOT expect Johnnie Dirtbag to be a normal, healthy young man. Johnnie is probably a doped up, drug using scumbag looking to score money to support his habit at your expense. He cares nothing about you at all. He will giggle like a little girl as he cuts various pieces of your anatomy off with a dull knife. To EFFECTIVELY DROP or STOP Johnnie Dirtbag in his tracks you need a decent size, weight and caliber bullet to do the job. Quit messing around here. For home defense your minimum caliber should be at least a .30 caliber or 7.62 millimeter bullet of at least 110 grains or more. In fact, if you can do it a good 450 Bushmaster or even a .50 caliber Beowulf cartridge would be better. Don't be half-stepping here in a critical time. Do it right.

 

[woodfiend]

I always found that a sucking chest wound takes the fight right out of a man. All I'm saying is, you can compromise between safety for others and tactical effectiveness. You CAN do both. Any hole in a person that they weren't born with is not a good hole.

 

[Defense Minister]

I'm with the above posters who say spend $5 on a box of #4 buckshot and call it good.

Also, remember that Gold Dots in your Glock are bonded core bullets, which are specifically designed to penetrate better.

 

[jpwilly]

Aqua Net and a zippo?

Usually the clatter of a Rem 870 being brought into action is enough to send most intruders looking for another victum...if' that's not enough than you may want ask him what he would prefer #2 #4 or bird shot.

 

[Javelin]

Truth is the 9mm is going to penetrate walls better than a defense 5.56 round. This is because the 5.56 defense round will fragment very quickly and the 9mm will not (hence why 5.56 is a poor penetrator for windshields).

That said. I am going to give you a little peice of tactical advice. A pistol will be much handier inside a house/apartment than a rifle and your reponse time and target acquisition inside of 10 feet (which is how far most home defense shootings occur) your better off with the pistol.

Will a 10.5" Noveske CQB w/ M4-2000 suppressor still be a nice choice for home defense? Sure.

 

[mljdeckard]

62 grain steel core 5.56 will penetrate windshields, car bodies, ...pretty much everything but the engine block, bell housing, and axles. With tedious ease. At distances beyond 200 yards, it will do so BETTER THAN 7.62 AP. Hotter velocity, steel core, and smaller profile make it so. Go ahead, use your AR, but use something besides ammo that was specifically designed to shred.

 

[camies]

Shotgun all the way!
Single rounds have to be carefully aimed with regard to your immediate emvironment. In a stress situation you can't beat the terror factor of facing a shotgun and the fact that you the user doesn't need to try very hard to hit the target.

 

[C-grunt]

At your typical indoor home defense ranges, most shotguns are not going to pattern fairly big. It can be very easy to miss a bad guy at 20 with a 12 gauge if you dont aim.

 

[1911 guy]

My personal choice, and I admit it's not ideal, is a 45gr JHP out of an AR-15 carbine. It's small enough that my wife can use it well, plenty of ammo on tap, and the light, fast and HP bullets are very unlikely to go through my lathe and plaster walls with much gusto left. Overpenetration is a big thing for me since I have houses close to me, like thirty feet on one side and one hundred feet on the other.

I'm not quite as concerned about overpenetration within the house, due to location of entry and choke points. I'll be shooting either directly away from or 90 degrees to the bedrooms.

 

[30 cal slob]

+1 for Hornady TAP for home defense.

there is nothing wrong with using a AR to defend your home.

my $0.02, based on my shoothouse training experiences:

advantages vs. handgun:

1) easier to shoot than a handun
2) shines on the long shot (if you have a long hallway or room)
3) easier to manipulate a carbine mounted white light

disadvantages vs. handgun:

1) tougher to clear corners or other tight spaces.

get familiar with both carbine and handgun. but chances are if the unthinkable happens, you're only going to reach for whatever's close by.

 

[Zach S]

At your typical indoor home defense ranges, most shotguns are not going to pattern fairly big. It can be very easy to miss a bad guy at 20 with a 12 gauge if you dont aim.

+1. In my house, with my shotgun, I might get a 3" spread. Takes as much effort to aim as my AR, which unlike the shotgun, doesn't have a bead sight.

 

[Tarvis]

If something doesn't penetrate several interior walls, i.e frangible, lightweight varmint bullets in the 5.56, or birdshot in the shotgun, it probably isn't going to penetrate sufficiently in tissue to insure the threat is stopped.

I think a varmint bullet is ideal. A V-max (hornady tap) traveling at 3000 fps will come out the other side of a person as shrapnel if it does, and will probably only make it through one wall if you miss. The only thing you will be able to do after you take a square hit from a V-max is hold your entrails in as you stumble out of the house. A varmint bullet will transfer 100% of its energy into the target creating a huge wound chamber as opposed to a line heading straight through like a hunting bullet. I can see the argument against V-max vs. body armor, but how many perps are wearing armor?

spend $5 on a box of #4 buckshot and call it good.

Not that you're wrong, more that I wouldn't put a price on safety. If it was $100 per box but was the only thing I could truly rely on to work when I needed it, I'd buy two.

Also, a handgun is a defensive weapon and I'd much rather be on the offense than defense. I get the feeling a rifle has fewer down sides than a pistol.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I want an AR15 carbine as my primary home defense weapon.

 

[Girodin]

For home defense your minimum caliber should be at least a .30 caliber or 7.62 millimeter bullet of at least 110 grains or more. In fact, if you can do it a good 450 Bushmaster or even a .50 caliber Beowulf cartridge would be better. Don't be half-stepping here in a critical time. Do it right.

If I lived in a townhouse or apartment with shared walls and I knew that my neighbor was keeping a .50 Beowulf as his primary HD weapon I'd walk next store and kick him in the nuts. A round like that is very likely to penetrate the BG and said shared wall and much of what ever is behind it. Sure a hit from a big bore rifle is going to do serious damage but there are other concerns that one must take into account.

IMO a shotgun and a .223 carbine are both good choices. I admittedly vacillate some what between them as to which I prefer.

The pistol is the worst choice IMO because it has serious risk of over penetration and is the most difficult for most people to reliably score hits with and lacks the power of a rifle or a shotgun. I'd still keep one close because it is easier to grab while one is in laying in bed than is a long arm. After grabbing the pistol I'd walk over and pick up the long gun however

 

[woodfiend]

I definately agree with you there Girodin, rounds like that are seriously dangerous to others. Just as you said, it would be hard for me to choose which one is better, shotgun, or .223 carbine. I use a Bushmaster myself, because I don't yet have a shotgun.

It has been proven, that handgun rounds can or will penetrate barriers more than .223/5.56. Patrick Sweeney is of this opinion, and he states so in many of his books and articles.

 

[mljdeckard]

Depends on the KIND of 5.56.