5.7x28 for defensive carry

[2ndunamended]

In reading threads on the Paris attacks, the notion of carrying extra magazines comes up many times. It got me thinking about what I carry- a Glock 17 mostly- so two mags gives me 34+ rounds of +P ammo.

That said, since carrying extra magazines is a no-brainer, it should also be true that carrying a higher capacity firearm (handgun) with higher capacity magazines also makes sense.

Specifically, what do you think about the FN FiveSeven? Is the 5.7x28 an effective round to fight back in a Paris-like attack? Of course it's better than nothing, but is the round itself a smart choice because of it's accuracy, low recoil, and high capacity (mags of 20-30 rounds)?

Certainly, it depends on what load you use, and over-penetration would be a major concern. Nonetheless, thank you for your thoughts on this.

 

[ku4hx]

Given it's use in the 2009 Ft. Hood shooting, you can certainly make a case for it being a competent defense round. But I never saw any reason to consider buying one. That was for various reasons not the least of which is its reported difficulties associated with hand loading. If I can't easily load for the cartridge, I generally don't want to own it. That and I'm just satisfied with what I have. I tend to believe the lack of chatter on most gun related forums says a lot. But that's just me and as is the usual case, YMMV.

Magazine capacity is a single point in a long list of reasons to buy a certain gun. I'm sure under certain circumstances the firepower the Five-seveN would be a definite advantage. But there are an awful lot of people just "getting by" with capacities of 5-9 rounds. It all depends on what you feel you can afford to train with and your assessment of what an acceptable firepower threshold is.

 

[PabloJ]

If 5,7x28 will give you sense of better safety get one. I do not bother with stuff like that because if it is meant for me to die I will die and if not I will live and nothing I do is going to change that. If it is meant for me to die from terrorist attack I will just meet Jesus a little sooner than I would otherwise.

 

[2ndunamended]

Given it's use in the 2009 Ft. Hood shooting, you can certainly make a case for it being a competent defense round. But I never saw any reason to consider buying one. That was for various reasons not the least of which is its reported difficulties associated with hand loading. If I can't easily load for the cartridge, I generally don't want to own it. That and I'm just satisfied with what I have. I tend to believe the lack of chatter on most gun related forums says a lot. But that's just me and as is the usual case, YMMV.

Magazine capacity is a single point in a long list of reasons to buy a certain gun. I'm sure under certain circumstances the firepower the Five-seveN would be a definite advantage. But there are an awful lot of people just "getting by" with capacities of 5-9 rounds. It all depends on what you feel you can afford to train with and your assessment of what an acceptable firepower threshold is.

ku4hx- thank you for your response.

In this case, I refer specifically to the Paris attacks, and any such terrorist scenarios that may require engaging multiple attackers. The debate on running, staying and fighting, etc... is purely subjective and entirely hypothetical. Training and experience (or lack thereof) are the only indicators of what one might do in such a situation.

I agree that there are no magic calibers or guns and that what is "best" is whatever one has in the moment, at the decision of counter-attack.

 

[2ndunamended]

If 5,7x28 will give you sense of better safety get one. I do not bother with stuff like that because if it is meant for me to die I will die and if not I will live and nothing I do is going to change that. If it is meant for me to die from terrorist attack I will just meet Jesus a little sooner than I would otherwise.

Odd response, considering this forum.

 

[dogmush]

In general, I wouldn't change my EDC firearm based on an extremely low probability event. (Being in the middle of a mass shooting type event). I chose the guns I carry because they offer the best versatility in capabilities against the threats I am likely to face, while armed in everyday US life.

A Five-seveN While a capable handgun, isn't a very great concealed carry choice. It's large, cost prohibitive to practice with, and has, I think, real issues with over-penetration and collateral damage. On the plus side they are pretty controllable and accurate. So there's that. But I don't think that overcomes it's flaws for this role.

Risk assessment vis a vis what gun to carry is an ongoing process. I know it's cliche, but if the risk of a situation tilts towards wanting almost 60 rounds of penetrating ammo over 20-30 of good 9mm JHP, I would either not go, or bring a carbine. For my daily life, I'm better off with a mid-sized 9mm. I think you probably are too.

So I would say yes, in that very limited situation (Paris type attack with multiple, possibly armored enemy) A Five-seveN would be the handgun to have, and that's still pretty much a no win, die like a viking, situation for the handgun wielder. Sometime you just draw the short straw in life. For petty much every other situation you will encounter where you might need a handgun other guns would be better.

 

[PabloJ]

Odd response, considering this forum.

If you anticipate being in middle of terrorist attack my advice would be Glock 40 with 180gr HPR loaded JHPs (bullets made by Hornady). It is crucial that particular cartridge is used. After you try it the reason why will become very obvious to you. It is convenient that this ammo is loaded in state you live in.

 

[dogmush]

If you anticipate being in middle of terrorist attack my advice would be Glock 40 with 180gr HPR loaded JHPs (bullets made by Hornady). It is crucial that particular cartridge is used. After you try it the reason why will become very obvious to you. It is convenient that this ammo is loaded in state you live in.

I'm actually pretty partial to XTP projectiles (although I prefer 9mm), but I have to ask; What makes HPR's cartridge different or better (crucial even !?!) than any of the several other loadings putting a 180gr XTP out at 950FPS?

 

[Zardaia]

If that's someone's prefrence than more power to em, not necesarily a "bad" choice, but not for me. Had a friend that carried one, may not be easy but with the right setup it can be done. Capacity, 20 vs 17 in a 9mm, I'll stick with a 9min over a steroidal .22. In it's intended role, either in a sub gun throwing lotsa rounds very fast, or even in a pistol with AP ammo where defeating vest is a real concern, the round has it's place. But with gimped civilian ammo vs comparable 9mm or greater options, I fail to see much benefit. To each his own though.

 

[usp9]

Specifically, what do you think about the FN FiveSeven? Is the 5.7x28 an effective round to fight back in a Paris-like attack? Of course it's better than nothing, but is the round itself a smart choice because of it's accuracy, low recoil, and high capacity (mags of 20-30 rounds)?

Certainly, it depends on what load you use, and over-penetration would be a major concern. Nonetheless, thank you for your thoughts on this.

* The FN 5.7 is a very high quality, reliable pistol. It's a bit big to carry concealed, but if you already carry a G17 then you're used to a large gun.

* The round is a good effective round against soft targets. One of it's main characteristic is it's LACK of over penetration... one of the reasons the Secret Service use it in crowded situations.

* IMHO, the chances of encountering terrorists is too low a probability to bother about. A drug addicted mugger ... maybe.

 

[barnbwt]

"Odd response, considering this forum."
Not really; the round isn't so hugely different in effect from 9mm or other duty rounds, after all (internet friction aside, it's only got a slight gain on capacity and a slight reduction in power, both of which have minor effects compared to the shooter's situation).

I like the gun since it is high quality, has the best manual safety system yet designed for duty guns, fits my hand well (not the case for most users), shoots to POA out to like 125yds, is easy to load magazines for, weighs very little even loaded, and is loud/flashy enough to be entertaining to practice with, but is not punishing at all (provided you have ear protection)

The main downsides are;
-No visible hammer (just a 'me' thing, and I'm getting over it)
-No decocker (see next)
-Magazine safety (combined with the previous two, it's a stupid arrangement) mandated by US import regulations (FNH would not have the feature, otherwise)
-Too-grippy stippling. This is just an FNH thing. While it works great, I have a checkerboard embossed on my palm for like an hour after shooting (I'd think a man without callouses might even draw blood )
-Weird Sights (the post and blade are really tall and skinny compared to most I've shot, and there's a large airgap between the centered post and blade notch sides)
-Too damn big. No one is likely to conceal carry, or even open carry, this thing for long without a mule-like disposition.

A single-stack or even cut-down 15rnd 4" barrel variant would be much more practical as a defense weapon. Seeing as the majority of their sales must be to civvies since few LEOs buy the pistols (just the carbines), I assume the only reason they haven't is because FNH just wants to make up the investment they put into the 5.7 NATO bid that H&K queered in the 90's.

TCB

 

[Zerodefect]

The only thing it does better than your G17 is punch through sheet metal and carry a few more rounds. If that's cool, then get one.

Wish Glock would make a 5.7mm.

 

[4thPointOfContact]

Much as I like the 5.7x28 (own a SBR PS90) I think it's sub-optimal without true defensive ammo. If I were to carry a SCHV hand gun, I'd probably go with a .22TCM in a Rock Island Armory 1911 platform (convertible to 9mm IIRC).

http://armscor.com/firearms/tcm-series/

 

[Fishbed77]

Considering that a number of full-size 9mm pistols can hold 17-19 rounds per magazine, I'm not sure that the 5.7mm FiveseveN's 20-round mag capacity really offers that great of a trade-off when you take into account its price, price of ammo, price of mags, relative size, odd manual of arms, and lack of defensive ammo offerings and data.

 

[strambo]

I wouldn't see the point since you already carry a G17, not to trade a few more rounds capacity for less terminal effectiveness.

 

[silicosys4]

It sounds like you are already well set up with a G17 and two spare magazines for any but the most unlikely of scenarios.
If you feel the likelihood of you being involved in a situation where your G17 would fail but a 5.7 wouldn't, by all means, spend the money and kit up.
I myself don't have the $800 or so to spend to address the 0.00001% chance that I'm
1. Anywhere near a Paris style attack
2. In a situation during that attack in which a G19 (my carry) and 2 magazines couldn't
save me, but a 5.7 would have.

 

[yugorpk]

The American Eagle 5.7X28 brass is completely reloadable and the base ammo is cheap. With 69 grain handloaded subsonics at 1100 FPS through a spectre 2 silencer its pretty quiet from my AR57 upper.


http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...57x28mm-40-grain-fmj-ammo-50-rounds?a=1521617

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Before this starts into another huge debate and joins the other 5.7x28 locked threads, I will add my opinion. After all the research I have read and seen I think this caliber is more than enough for carry. It may not be the most powerful but this round will create a large wound cavity compared to it's size. It's the 5.56 of the handgun world in a sense when 5.56 was first being issued to the military. Looked down upon because of it's small size when in reality it's a decent round on flesh.


If you decide on getting a FiveseveN than you can carry it with confidence. Google Brassfetcher. He did a lot of Ballistic Gel research on this round himself and I believe he said that it's a better performing round on target than .45 ACP but I could be remembering wrong.

 

[pwillie]

...its an odd round,and a little hard to find....9mm is plenty and available anywhere....why put yourself in a have to situation,meaning aquiring a lot of ammo you may never need...My son has one,but its not his every day carry....even the feds are going back to "9"ines....fun to shoot , but you need a firearm that can be easy to service!

 

[.338-06]

Even at the height (bottom?) of the ammo drought, 5.7 ammo was available. Funny thing I noticed then, go into a gun store (local or big box) there would be no .22lr in stock, but plenty of .22 guns. All those stores had plenty of 5.7mm, but no 5.7mm guns for sale.

 

[Zerodefect]

Even my local big box store has 5.7 now. Cheaper than .357sig IIRC.

 

[Havok7416]

I have a Five-SeveN and I do carry it on occasion - mostly to the range. The capacity is a plus, particularly if you have the 30-round mags for reloads. In low light the muzzle flash would likely be detrimental.

Several others have good points about other higher capacity guns. The Springfield XDm comes immediately to mind with something like 19 rounds available in a standard mag. The Five-SeveN from a practicality standpoint is hard to justify IMO.

 

[bikemutt]

The only time mine is pressed into non-range use is when attending events in places like movie theaters where potential victims are a captive audience. I can shoot it well, it holds lots of rounds, it's reasonably lightweight, I can easily pack several extra mags if the day proves to be longer than I anticipated.

None of this is to say any other high capacity defensive pistol wouldn't be a better choice, I just happen to like this one.

 

[barnbwt]

"Even at the height (bottom?) of the ammo drought, 5.7 ammo was available. Funny thing I noticed then, go into a gun store (local or big box) there would be no .22lr in stock, but plenty of .22 guns. All those stores had plenty of 5.7mm, but no 5.7mm guns for sale."

The ammo situation has stabilized a ton from when FNH was the sole source, but during that time, ammo dried up entirely for like six months when the European ammo plant went on strike. Also, I can confidently state that the only reason 5.7 was available to you throughout the ban was because there was not a single PS90 owner within fifty miles who knew about it. In the DFW area, the ammo was gone-gone for the entirety of the ban-panic, I saw it marked up massively (50$ to 80$ a box) in small quantities every three months or so, and it did not last long. Also, I can see why the round would not sell well in Anchorage, specifically (little application beyond defense or plinking, and economics for a large chunk of the population and the staid gun-buying customer attitude for the rest will favor other options first)

Again, I do not think we are at that level of scarcity anymore; there are enough platforms and enough interest to warrant multiple manufacturers of ammo and reloading supplies/components. It has hardly been anything but ubiquitous throughout its life, though; let's not make those claims.

"The Springfield XDm comes immediately to mind with something like 19 rounds available in a standard mag"
"Considering that a number of full-size 9mm pistols can hold 17-19 rounds per magazine, I'm not sure that the 5.7mm FiveseveN's 20-round mag capacity really offers that great of a trade-off when you take into account its price, price of ammo, price of mags, relative size, odd manual of arms, and lack of defensive ammo offerings and data."
While a Glock/XD/etc may have its grip described as a 2x4, I would describe the five-seven's as a 1x6. The grip is really long, which is why it fits people so poorly, but it really isn't terribly wide. Just something to keep in mind when comparing the capacity of 9mm platforms to the pistol (not to mention that the entire notion of 20 rounds of 9mm 'not being that much larger' just doesn't add up geometrically. It's just that since both are large duty-guns, the additional increase beyond 'too big to easily conceal' is not as apparent. The weight difference is still striking, though). Fishbed is largely correct about the tradeoff not generally being worth it --as evidenced by the gun/round not sweeping the nation-- but some or all of that list of tradeoffs is not problematic for many folks.

TCB

 

[justin22885]

i really dont get why people get enamored with the FN five seven round.. to be quite blunt its internal ballistics are complete crap.. sure its a high velocity, accurate round, but it hits barely better than a .22lr.. you can carry 20 rounds, but youre going to NEED 20 rounds to do the same job a 9 mil or 45acp can do with half that... and lets not forget the only pistol really chambered for it is the FN five-seven.. overweight, very bulky, very long length of pull, and generally not a good pistol, surely not for self defense

if you just like the idea of a high velocity bottleneck cartridge, get a 7.62x25, get a 30 luger, get a .22 TCM and you have something exponentially better than 5.7x28mm