50cal flintlock loadings

[bdg146]

My dad got me a 50 caliber T/C flintlock muzzleloader for chistmas. Quite a Christmas gift!

I've shot and hunted with his 50 cal before, so I have a basic understanding of a flintlock and how to load/shoot one.

My question is this. He has always used FFFG powder as the main charge behind the ball. I believe he used about 90 grains of it. So that's what he bought for me to go with the muzzleloader. I was reading through the manual for my rifle, and T/C suggests using FFG for a 50 caliber. I know both go boom, and FFFG will obviously work, since he's used it for years. Now that I have a can of FFFG, is there any reason I should go out and get some FFG instead? How much do I use? The manual has loadings for FFG only. Is there a significant pressure difference between 90 grains of FFG and 90 grains of FFFG?

Sorry if this is covered elsewhere. Searching the forum for FFFG yielded a ton of results, as did other combinations of the keywords in my questions.

Thanks!

 

[mykeal]

The fffg will work just fine, at the same values the manual specifies for ffg. The fffg will burn just a little faster and produce a slightly higher pressure but most people find the difference, while it can be measured, is not noticeable.

fffg has the advantage of also being usable as the pan charge; ffg is less reliable in that application. If you use fffg as the main charge and the pan charge you don't need to carry two powder flasks and use two different measures.

 

[bdg146]

Thanks for the help. Never tried the FFFG for the flashpan (he uses the 4F). Might have to try that out.

It also says to use a non-petroleum based lubricant for the barrel. Are typical gun oils (hoppes, etc.) petroleum based? They recommend their own (surprise surprise). I haven't seen it at any stores, so I'm curious what I can use as an alternative. Are such oils specifically advertised as non-petroleum based?

 

[arcticap]

Many guns oils are petroleum based.
TC is recommending lubes that are composed of natural oils or at least black powder compatible oils.
Any petroleum oils used to protect the bore would need to be completely swabbed out with alcohol or such before firing because they can cause a black tar to form.
TC Bore Butter or Wonder Lube is available at some Walmarts. It's a patch lube that most people have on hand for that purpose anyway, so coating the bore with it after a thorough cleaning/drying as a preservative is common and easy.
A similar concoction can be made at home by mixing melted beeswax with olive oil or similar vegetable oils.
Since you'll need a patch lube anyway, why not at least try some Bore Butter or Wonder Lube?
Bore Butter can become stiff in the winter cold, so some folks will then switch to using liquid patch lubes like genuine mink or olive oil or Hoppe's #9 Plus Black Powder Solvent & Patch Lube.
Why not ask your dad what he uses to protect the bore of his flinter and as a patch lube?
Just remember that there are differences between patch lubes and bore preserving oils, but some are useful for both purposes.
Here's a recent THR thread (of many) about Bore Butter.
Wonder Lube is essentially the same product but from Traditions.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=400383

 

[mykeal]

T/C's lube is non-petroleum based. So is Ballistol, Butch's Bore Shine and many other mineral oil based solvents/oils, such as cutting oil. Generally any oil or solvent that mentions black powder on the label will suffice. Hoppe's No. 9 is petroleum based and not suitable, but Hoppes' No. 9 Plus is specified for black powder.

Bore Butter is fine; I've used it for years, but there is one note of caution. Be sure the bore is completely dry before coating it. If there are water drops in the bore, Bore Butter can cover them up instead of displacing them, and they will eventually, over a long period of time, rust. Use Bore Butter for short term storage but not long term unless you are very sure the barrel is completely dry first.

 

[bdg146]

I guess I'll keep all my questions regarding the new rifle to this thread. As with anything else, the more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. Working on it though

Thanks for the link. Great read. I've looked for Ballistol (based on the recommendations in the other thread) but didn't find any. I've settled on some bore butter, but I'll keep my eyes peeled for it.

Quick question here... I'm having a heck of a time getting the door to the patch box open. I can pry it open, but no way I'm getting it open out in the field, especially with cold fingers. It seems the back part of the door (by the hinge) is rubbing. Anything keeping me from taking a dremel or a file to it to take a little bit of the brass off? Is that solid brass or just plated? I'm nervous about filing it off and revealing something underneath that may corrode or weather.

Thanks!

 

[BlackNet]

I think you will find that FFFg will give a higher muzzle velocity than FFg does, using the same volume. Technically you can use either. The good thing about FFFg is it will worth in both the pan and the main charge while FFg will also work in the pan you will/can have more ignition problems (FFFg being easier to ignite)

 

[arcticap]

Ballistol can be found here:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...stol&submit=Find+it!&typ=All&mfg=Any&dept=Any

 

[mykeal]

The patchbox cover is solid, not plated, brass. Try a little mineral oil lubrication on the patch box cover before removing material.

 

[tx gun runner]

Here one I built

 

[bdg146]

Thanks once again for the help mykeal. You seem to know a great deal about black powder rifles. I appreciate the help.

One more question. I hope it's a simple question. So I shot a couple of times on Sunday to make sure everything was working well before I plan on going hunting this weekend. I was back at my parents place, so after traveling back home Sunday and starting work after the holiday Monday, I didn't get around to cleaning the rifle until tonight. I know I should've cleaned it Sunday night, and I'm kind of upset with myself for putting it off. Did I likely do any damage?

I cleaned it with very hot soapy water. Stuck the flashpan hole down in the water and ran patches through until they came out clean. I clogged up both holes and swished some water around too for good measure. I then dried thoroughly with patches and a hair dryer. Then I put some of the natural lube stuff I bought on some patches and ran them down through the barrel. I wasn't really too sure how to apply that, but figured that'd be an alright method.

I also have some black powder solvent. When would be the correct time to use that, if any? Most cleaning regiments seem to focus on the hot soapy water. Is the solvent necessary?

PS - impressive grouping tn_gun_runner. Hopefully some day for me. For now, open sights limit me to much closer than 100 yards.

 

[tx gun runner]

bdg146
most TC have a 1 in 48 twist in 50 cal make 80 FFF the magic number for RB or Slug . The twist won't let you drive it much faster and get a good group . 1in 66 or 70 will let you drive it faster use over 100 gr of powder .

 

[arcticap]

Solvent has many uses, especially when a full water cleaning isn't necessary or time is limited. Use it for swabbing out at the range or between cleanings. If done thoroughly, cleaning with a solvent can substitute for a water cleaning.
You could have quickly cleaned with solvent just to bid yourself more time after shooting your gun until you could give it a water bath.
It's good to inspect the bore of a rifle a few days after cleaning and run a few tight solvent patches down the bore to see if it or the Bore Butter loosened up any residue that was trapped in the rifling grooves.
If any is detected, then use a brush or more solvent patches to remove more before it causes rust damage.
Once satisfied that the bore is indeed clean, then liberally re-apply more Bore Butter.
Some folks check, swab and re-lube their bore every few months whether they shoot it or not.
Sometimes the Bore Butter turns brown even if there's nothing wrong going on inside the bore. But it doesn't hurt to check it out between shooting sessions to protect your investment.

 

[bdg146]

I had used 90 grains simply based on what I've used and what my dad uses.

I was playing around with the idea of using 100 grains simply because it's more velocity, but I guess I need to remember that I'm not shooting a modern rifle. More velocity isn't necessarily better. Since I'm limited on my range anyway due to my inexperience with open sights, 80 grains is probably a good choice for me. I'll give it a shot (no pun intended )

 

[Chuck Dye]

I believe the Lyman Black Powder Handbook is a must have for anyone shooting the stinky guns. The Dixie Gunworks catalog is well worth its price whether or not you shoot black powder or anything else.