6.5 Creedmoor past present future

[horsemen61]

Howdy everybody,

In an effort to learn more about my favorite cartridge. I am creating this thread to be an all exclusive place to speak of the 6.5 Creedmoor. From how it began to what has spurred in its rapid rise to fame,and what is the future for this little round? Anything is welcome in regards to the 6.5 Creedmoor pics comments suggestions

So I’ll start my 6.5 Creedmoor is a savage model 10 fcp -sr
Which has become my favorite rifle
So any thoughts tips comments or concerns are welcomed

 

[jmr40]

I think it will eventually be the most common center fire cartridge in use, the 30-06 of the 21st century if you will. Years ago most shooters were hunters 1st and bought rifles geared toward hunting. The number of hunters over the last 20 years has gone down dramatically while the number of shooters has increased. Most shooters today either don't hunt at all, or if they do are shooters who primarily like to shoot at the range and hunting is secondary.

The 6.5 CM bridges that gap perfectly. It provides excellent accuracy for target shooters at ranges far beyond the ability of 90% of shooters with very mild recoil at reasonable cost to either purchase factory ammo or hand load. As a hunting cartridge it is probably ideal for deer, (the biggest game most hunters will ever hunt), and still shoots bullets with enough weight to be capable on elk size game. It shoots the same bullet weights as 270 about 200 fps slower at the muzzle with 30% less recoil. But the more aerodynamic bullets will almost catch up to 270 speeds at about 200 yards. Anything a 270 will kill, the 6.5 CM will kill.

 

[TarDevil]

And if the OP doesn't mind, I'd be interested in perspective on why the 6.5 CM has exploded in popularity while the 6.5X55 Swede and 260 Remington languished.

I personally love the 6.5X55, but i know it's a long action cartridge and factory loads are mild in deference to older guns thus chambered. I'm still unsure why the 260 Rem struggles.

 

[horsemen61]

TarDevil

1) Most metric cartridges don’t fare well here in the states 7mm mag is the exception
2) Long action is not in vogue right now
3) with all the old Mauser weak actions no ammo makers want to “hot rod 6.5x55” in case it gets in a weak action
4) If Remington had done .260 right the Creedmoor would’ve never been invented the whole bullet being seated into valuable powder space cramps it’s style

 

[horsemen61]

Back to the 6.5 Creedmoor now I think it is an excellent all around cartridge for general hunting/target shooting not big bears but everything else yes

 

[TarDevil]

TarDevil


4) If Remington had done .260 right the Creedmoor would’ve never been invented the whole bullet being seated into valuable powder space cramps it’s style

I'd heard something like this... also that the .260 looses accuracy with heavier bullets. I've no personal experience, so I defer to more knowledgeable folk.

Now that I live in good deer country and have a deer hunting-addicted neighbor, I may look into a Ruger American... and the only cartridge I'd consider is the Creedmore for all the reasons JMR40 defined.

 

[someguy2800]

This is why the 6.5 creedmoor wins where the 260 failed.

First the 260 was released with the wrong twist rate, 1:10, which means it cannot stabilize the long high BC bullets unless you get a custom barrel. The 6.5C has a standard twist of 1:8 Most factory 260 rifles now come with a 1:8 or 1:9, but the damage was done.

Second the 260's case is too long. The picture below is a 308 at max OAL length on the left, 147 gr 6.5 bullet in the middle, and 6.5 creedmoor on the right. As you can see if you load this long of a bullet into a 308 length case the ogive of the bullet is barely out of the case mouth. Sure you can handload to longer lengths if you have a long enough magazine, but you can't sell factory ammo that won't fit in every gun.



The solution that the 6.5C offers is to shorten the case slightly and blow the shoulder out. This results in an identical case capacity, but now the bullets actually fit in the case, and the case fits in the guns. Now release it to the public with a cool name and sell really good match factory ammo for $20 a box and you have a runaway success.

 

[Laphroaig]

I was just cleaning out my email inbox when I came across one from Shooting Sports USA that I hadn't read yet. This article was in it, and has some good history and info for this thread.

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018...wsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=1118

 

[d2wing]

Your prediction is premature. The Creedmoor has already been outdated by the 6.5 PRC also by Hornady. It is capable of longer bullets and is about 200 fps faster. Sorry.

 

[someguy2800]

Your prediction is premature. The Creedmoor has already been outdated by the 6.5 PRC also by Hornady. It is capable of longer bullets and is about 200 fps faster. Sorry.

If speed was all that mattered neither of them would exist because there are several 6.5mm cartridges faster than both. I don't see 6.5 PRC becoming nearly as popular.

 

[FL-NC]

I bought my first one yesterday- a Ruger American predator.

 

[kimberkid]

These are my 2 6.5 Creedmoor's, top is a SiG SSG-3000 that I had Benchmark build me a black stainless fluted 22" barrel. I'm slowly overcoming several Ostioprosis due to my doctor (an old old old guy had kept me on prednisone for almost 5 years to treat a GI condition which gave me bone density of -4.5) The 308 it originally came in was too severe for my shoulder ...

The bottom is a Jack 308 receiver with JP Enterprises front end, enhanced bolt & carrier and captured buffer spring, Geisselle SSA-E flat bow trigger and of course the MagPull PRS ... All topped with Leupold 8.5-25x50 Extended Long Range ... The lower jaw is from a Halloween skull, 2 years later it still needs paint ... The red under the handguard is a heat sink but they sent me the short one instead of the long one, still haven't gotten that squared away yet either ... but both will put 10 rounds in a 2.5" group at 500 yards.

 

[horsemen61]

^^ cool rifles kimberkid

 

[Flatbush Harry]

And if the OP doesn't mind, I'd be interested in perspective on why the 6.5 CM has exploded in popularity while the 6.5X55 Swede and 260 Remington languished.

I personally love the 6.5X55, but i know it's a long action cartridge and factory loads are mild in deference to older guns thus chambered. I'm still unsure why the 260 Rem struggles.

In modern guns, the 6.5x55SE is a wonderful cartridge that can be loaded to equal, or exceed, the ballistics of the .260 Rem due to its greater case capacity. I have two rifles in this caliber, a Ruger No. 1A and a Ruger 77 African; both are very accurate with either 139gr Lapua Scenars or 142gr Sierra MatchKings over H4831SC. I also have a .260 Remington Tooley Bartlein barrel for my AIAT. It is also superbly accurate with the above bullets and H4831 SC. I have gotten slightly better velocity with H4350 at the cost of slightly larger groups. I have a box of Federal GMM with 142gr MatchKing bullets and another of Black Hills Match ammo using 139gr Scenars in .260 Rem that I'll use as comparators for my handloads this spring. Load development never stops, after all.

Now as to the question raised by TarDevil, the problem with the 6.5x55SE is a lack of modern rifles designed for precision shooting with an appropriate aftermarket for customization as well as a lack of ammunition suited for modern rifles. This reduces the fine 6.5x55SE to a hand loader's cartridge. Beretta offers Sako and Tikka rifles and CZ offers several rifles in this caliber but they are all really hunting rifles. That said, I was sighting in my Ruger 77 African after mounting one of my Leupold hunting scopes using my handloads...the below 2-shot group suggests I am sighted in at 100 yards. Now a 2-shot group proves nothing but it suggests that the cartridge is accurate, something that European shooters have known for years.



Turning to the .260 Rem, the reason this fine cartridge didn't catch on is a lack of rifles and appropriate ammo selection for other than hunting. Remington misjudged the market and did not, and still doesn't, offer a suitably barreled precision rifle or useful ammo for one. It too is a handloader's cartridge. I attach an article by a well-known precision shooter, Zak Smith, from 2007, discussing the .260 Remington.

http://demigodllc.com/articles/the-case-for-260-remington/?p=3

By contrast, Hornady correctly saw the possibilities for a 6.5mm in the 6.5 Creedmoor. This caliber has taken over precision shooting with a 6mm little brother not far behind. Zak Smith again discusses the principal alternatives.

http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

I recently acquired a Bergara B-14 HMR in 6.5 Creedmoor and bought some factory Match loads and Hornady brass. I'll look forward to working with this rifle and caliber. I suspect, like Zak Smith, I'll find that all three are virtual identical triplets in terms of performance. However, the 6.5 Creedmor is well-supported in terms of ammo and rifles...and that's why it flourishes.

 

[silicosys4]

I think it will eventually be the most common center fire cartridge in use, the 30-06 of the 21st century if you will.

I honestly doubt this will become the case. I think it will carve out a decent niche, and remain there. I don't see it dominating other already established cartridges because I don't think it has a lot to offer over other established cartridges in ways that most hunters and shooters need.

Years ago most shooters were hunters 1st and bought rifles geared toward hunting. The number of hunters over the last 20 years has gone down dramatically while the number of shooters has increased. Most shooters today either don't hunt at all, or if they do are shooters who primarily like to shoot at the range and hunting is secondary.

Most hunters don't need a 6.5 CM and most ranges don't extend to the lengths that would make a 6.5CM a better choice than a 5.56 or .308 for plinking or even moderate target work.

The 6.5 CM bridges that gap perfectly. It provides excellent accuracy for target shooters at ranges far beyond the ability of 90% of shooters with very mild recoil at reasonable cost to either purchase factory ammo or hand load.

You've got that right, but also 90% of people will be suited just fine with much cheaper alternatives such as the aforementioned options, 5.56 specifically...even less recoil and cost to handload or purchase.

As a hunting cartridge it is probably ideal for deer, (the biggest game most hunters will ever hunt), and still shoots bullets with enough weight to be capable on elk size game. It shoots the same bullet weights as 270 about 200 fps slower at the muzzle with 30% less recoil. But the more aerodynamic bullets will almost catch up to 270 speeds at about 200 yards. Anything a 270 will kill, the 6.5 CM will kill.

As a hunter, I can tell you that in my circle and people I'm exposed to... the 6.5CM is getting almost no play. As I said, it does nothing for the vast majority of hunters that other established cartridges haven't been doing for decades. I also think the modest reduction in recoil the 6.5 CM has over other cartridges is a point overplayed by fans of the 6.5. I have spoken with a lot of hunters and the consensus seems to be that the capabilities of the cartridge is vastly more important than the felt recoil, and that erring on the side of caution is the preferable option.

Around here, I predict the 6.5 CM will be a fairly popular option but will by no means approach or eclipse the popularity of 5.56 or .308 for plinking, and will not come close to beating out the popular calibers for hunting.

As for reloading, I am in the process of choosing an upper for an AR10 and have no interest in a 6.5 CM upper, will go with a .308 upper, because the 6.5 CM

1. Does not do anything better than the .308 for hunting at normal and ethical ranges
2. Does not have the power for me to consider it an ethical hunting cartridge at the ranges it does start to shine over the .308,
3. Components for the 6.5CM are much more expensive than the .308 for reloading. 7.62 LC brass and pulled 147gr. bullets are hard to beat for plinking, LC brass and premium expanding bullets are no more expensive for the .308 than the 6.5
4. 6.5CM does not punch paper any better at the 400yd range I shoot at than the much cheaper to load 5.56

I predict the 6.5 CM will establish a niche for long range plinking, and as a pretty good medium game cartridge. I would be very surprised if it came to be much more.

 

[joed]

What do you think the future of the 6.5 will hold with the military choosing the 6.8 mm? Makes me wonder how this will effect popularity.

 

[kimberkid]

I predict the 6.5 CM will establish a niche for long range plinking, and as a pretty good medium game cartridge.

I would guess you're pretty much spot on ... myself, being a reloader and have been wanting something with lighter recoil to shoot 600-1000 yards, I suppose you can count me in that niche.

 

[Sebastian]

What do you think the future of the 6.5 will hold with the military choosing the 6.8 mm? Makes me wonder how this will effect popularity.

Which 6.8? Not the 6.8SPC which would compare more readily to the 6.5 Grendel not Creedmoor ...you mean a Textron type cased telescoped (ct) cartridge? Someone chime in

 

[LoonWulf]

I honestly doubt this will become the case. I think it will carve out a decent niche, and remain there. I don't see it dominating other already established cartridges because I don't think it has a lot to offer over other established cartridges in ways that most hunters and shooters need.



Most hunters don't need a 6.5 CM and most ranges don't extend to the lengths that would make a 6.5CM a better choice than a 5.56 or .308 for plinking or even moderate target work.



You've got that right, but also 90% of people will be suited just fine with much cheaper alternatives such as the aforementioned options, 5.56 specifically...even less recoil and cost to handload or purchase.



As a hunter, I can tell you that in my circle and people I'm exposed to... the 6.5CM is getting almost no play. As I said, it does nothing for the vast majority of hunters that other established cartridges haven't been doing for decades. I also think the modest reduction in recoil the 6.5 CM has over other cartridges is a point overplayed by fans of the 6.5. I have spoken with a lot of hunters and the consensus seems to be that the capabilities of the cartridge is vastly more important than the felt recoil, and that erring on the side of caution is the preferable option.

Around here, I predict the 6.5 CM will be a fairly popular option but will by no means approach or eclipse the popularity of 5.56 or .308 for plinking, and will not come close to beating out the popular calibers for hunting.

As for reloading, I am in the process of choosing an upper for an AR10 and have no interest in a 6.5 CM upper, will go with a .308 upper, because the 6.5 CM

1. Does not do anything better than the .308 for hunting at normal and ethical ranges
2. Does not have the power for me to consider it an ethical hunting cartridge at the ranges it does start to shine over the .308,
3. Components for the 6.5CM are much more expensive than the .308 for reloading. 7.62 LC brass and pulled 147gr. bullets are hard to beat for plinking, LC brass and premium expanding bullets are no more expensive for the .308 than the 6.5
4. 6.5CM does not punch paper any better at the 400yd range I shoot at than the much cheaper to load 5.56

I predict the 6.5 CM will establish a niche for long range plinking, and as a pretty good medium game cartridge. I would be very surprised if it came to be much more.

I actually think JMR might we'll be right, at least where I'm at, and at least for a little while.

I'm seeing fewer and fewer .308s and .243s in use these days, and more, and more 6.5s
Nearly everyone I know, who owns more than one rifle, owns a 6.5CM.

Loaded ammo cost isnt that much different. 20 bucks a box, 24-27 bucks a box, either way it costs you a couple lunches. It beats 30+ for a long action, not-06, and 35+ for a common magnum.

For reloaders time is generally worth more than cheap components, especially since there's only one place locally you can shoot non expanding bullets legally here. I only load one type of ammo for hunting, plinking, and targets.

As a game cartridge it will punch deep enough, and cause enough damage for a kill on anything we're likely to shoot at, from any angle, with any common loading. The cartridges larger than .243 can generally say the same (tho I've seen guys shooting pigs with fmj .308, or 06 "cause, stay cheap das why!" And wondering why they don't stay down), but smaller rounds, and the .243, can easily be found in ammo that's not effective. While the use of an fmj .223, or varmint bullet .22-250 or .243 loading is on the shooter/purchaser, you never hear that part of the story, all you hear is "shot em with_____ and it ran away!"
The low recoil, excellent accuracy that is generally experienced, and host of firearms it's available in, also generally lend it's self well to lunch table conversation.

This all sorta builds a reputation for the cartridge thats out of proportion to how much "better" it actually is, and here at least, word of mouth matters a great deal.


Again this is only what I'm seeing locally.

There's also plenty of folks who aren't interested, but they generally arnt buying new guns.

 

[dranrab]

Ah, the 6.5 Creedmoor discussion. It seems that it tends to be a somewhat polarizing discussion. There are those that think it's a magical chambering and those who say there's nothing special about it. Here's the deal. For 95+% of the shooters out there that already have a deer gun or a range rifle, they will be well served keeping what they have. They don't need to rush out and immerse themselves in the Creedmoor craze. For anyone considering a hunting rifle, the Creedmoor deserves consideration. It won't kill any better than any other round in its class, but because it's the hottest thing going, it's available in any imaginable platform or configuration. Ammo is widely available and it's priced very reasonably. For long range hunting, you have to really stretch things out before the Creedmoor really starts to shine. I think if I were to hunt at those kind of ranges I'd opt for the PRC over the Creedmoor. The Creedmoor makes most sense for those who want to get into target shooting both near and far. The Creedmoor is a combination of a lot of little things done right that make a difference where fractions of inches count. It really is that simple. This discussion could end right there. But it won't.

I will add that it is indeed an incredibly popular round. Insiders are saying the Creedmoor is outselling everything else by a wide margin. Here's one example. https://christensenarms.com/blog/most-popular-rifle-chamberings/

 

[someguy2800]

I honestly doubt this will become the case. I think it will carve out a decent niche, and remain there. I don't see it dominating other already established cartridges because I don't think it has a lot to offer over other established cartridges in ways that most hunters and shooters need.



Most hunters don't need a 6.5 CM and most ranges don't extend to the lengths that would make a 6.5CM a better choice than a 5.56 or .308 for plinking or even moderate target work.



You've got that right, but also 90% of people will be suited just fine with much cheaper alternatives such as the aforementioned options, 5.56 specifically...even less recoil and cost to handload or purchase.



As a hunter, I can tell you that in my circle and people I'm exposed to... the 6.5CM is getting almost no play. As I said, it does nothing for the vast majority of hunters that other established cartridges haven't been doing for decades. I also think the modest reduction in recoil the 6.5 CM has over other cartridges is a point overplayed by fans of the 6.5. I have spoken with a lot of hunters and the consensus seems to be that the capabilities of the cartridge is vastly more important than the felt recoil, and that erring on the side of caution is the preferable option.

Around here, I predict the 6.5 CM will be a fairly popular option but will by no means approach or eclipse the popularity of 5.56 or .308 for plinking, and will not come close to beating out the popular calibers for hunting.

As for reloading, I am in the process of choosing an upper for an AR10 and have no interest in a 6.5 CM upper, will go with a .308 upper, because the 6.5 CM

1. Does not do anything better than the .308 for hunting at normal and ethical ranges
2. Does not have the power for me to consider it an ethical hunting cartridge at the ranges it does start to shine over the .308,
3. Components for the 6.5CM are much more expensive than the .308 for reloading. 7.62 LC brass and pulled 147gr. bullets are hard to beat for plinking, LC brass and premium expanding bullets are no more expensive for the .308 than the 6.5
4. 6.5CM does not punch paper any better at the 400yd range I shoot at than the much cheaper to load 5.56

I predict the 6.5 CM will establish a niche for long range plinking, and as a pretty good medium game cartridge. I would be very surprised if it came to be much more.

These things don't change overnight. Most people that hunt arnt going to get rid of their 06 or 270 and run out to buy a 6.5C. It's the new people coming into shooting and hunting that will slowly drive the popularity up. For younger people looking to buy their own centerfire rifle they will look at it compared to a 06 or 308 and they will say well this kills deer just as dead and it does this and this and this better and the ammo costs the same as everything else so why not? It might take 20 or 30 years just like everything else did, but it will continue to grow in popularity as interest in larger cartridges declines.

As for it not offering any advantage to short range plinkers, that never stopped anybody from buying a 400 hp car just to drive to work. People like to know they have the capability to do something they never will. Makes them feel good and gives something to tell their buddies.

 

[readyeddy]

Seems like the 6.5 CM has hit a home run, the proverbial lightening in a bottle.

A combination of technical excellence, marketing and timing. Throw in an almost mythical reputation for low recoil, long range, high SD, high BC, perfect for hunting, target, and tactical. There may be superior cartridges in the same class, but the 6.5 CM appears to have reached a critical mass and the explosion is unstoppable. Analogous to the .270 Win's popularity over the 280 Rem. Knowing, or believing, that the cartridge is here to stay, ensures ammo availability and the ability to use your ammo cache on future rifle purchases, a confidence that encourages a snowball effect until a certain few people reject the 6.5 CM so that they aren't perceived as common or boring or technically obsolete, like today's 30 06 owners.

So anyway, my crystal ball says JMR is right.

 

[Doc Samson]

how it began to what has spurred in its rapid rise to fame,and what is the future for this little round? Anything is welcome in regards to the 6.5 Creedmoor pics comments suggestions

So I’ll start my 6.5 Creedmoor is a savage model 10 fcp -sr
Which has become my favorite rifle
So any thoughts tips comments or concerns are welcomed

I moved over to the same rifle after selling my PTR 91. Wanted a little less recoil and a lot more accuracy and succeeded with both. I've been able to keep my shots on a 2" steel plate at 250 yards and that makes me happy!

As for it's success over similar rounds that have been around much longer and, on paper, seem more capable? I believe it is a textbook case study in very good marketing versus very poor marketing...

 

[Frostbite]

[QUOTE="readyeddy, post: 11031173, member: 186648]boring or technically obsolete, like today's 30 06 owners.[/QUOTE]

I am not boring, I am mature ; I am not technically obsolete, I am proven.

It might very well be a lack of knowledge on my part -this would not be a first-, but I fail to see how the 6.5 Creedmoor would replace the 30-06 Springfield in practical use for hunting. That said, I can see it replacing the .243 Winchester to .308 Winchester crowd for the same. I almost included .270 Winchester, but since I recently learned about a 180 grain projectile in that 6.8mm caliber, I did not.

For a target shooting and hunting no bigger than deer combo (most hunters), it sure looks like a good choice for the next generation. I think it is here to stay.

For target shooting only, I chose .223 Remington and have no regret: my shooting range is 200 yards maximum. Inexpensive, no recoil, plenty of rifles to choose from.

 

[dranrab]

[QUOTE="readyeddy, post: 11031173, member: 186648]boring or technically obsolete, like today's 30 06 owners.

I am not boring, I am mature ; I am not technically obsolete, I am proven.

It might very well be a lack of knowledge on my part -this would not be a first-, but I fail to see how the 6.5 Creedmoor would replace the 30-06 Springfield in practical use for hunting. That said, I can see it replacing the .243 Winchester to .308 Winchester crowd for the same. I almost included .270 Winchester, but since I recently learned about a 180 grain projectile in that 6.8mm caliber, I did not.

For a target shooting and hunting no bigger than deer combo (most hunters), it sure looks like a good choice for the next generation. I think it is here to stay.

For target shooting only, I chose .223 Remington and have no regret: my shooting range is 200 yards maximum. Inexpensive, no recoil, plenty of rifles to choose from.[/QUOTE]

The 30-06 is more gun and more recoil than most people need for most of what they hunt. Modern bullets have really helped get the most out of milder chamberings. The Creedmoor is ideal for deer, hogs, mountain lion, antelope, black bear and caribou. It's more than adequate for moose and elk. If someone were to take up hunting today, if they weren't going to be hunting bison and brown bear, why would they choose the 30-06? Our mindset as a group has gravitated with the ready of premium bullets in factory loadings across the full spectrum of chamberings. I never jumped onto the magnum bandwagon. I knew that milder chamberings with the right bullets were lights out lethal.