6.5mm / .264 magnum loudenboomers

[brass shower]

6.5 mm is a caliber I've got absolutely no experience with, but I am somewhat familiar with the 260 remington and 6.5x55 swede. With all the hoopla about the 6.5 Grendel I got to asking myself if anyone ever made any magnum 6.5 cartridges. Doing a little research, I found the 264 Winchester Magnum, which looks to me like a 300 Win mag necked down to 6.5; and the 6.5 Remington Mag, which seems like a 264 Win Mag trimmed to fit in a short action. I also found a little information about a wildcat built on the 300 WSM necked down to 6.5mm,

Remington states ballistics for the 264 Win mag as 140 gr@ 3030 fps and for the 6.5 Rem Mag are 120 gr at 3210 fps. Very close. I wasn't able to find ballistics for the 6.5 WSM wildcat but I assume it would be similar.

Lots of questions, perhaps I can get a few answers. Does anyone have any practical experience with these cartridges? Extreme long range (500 yd+) paper punching would be my interest in these. How well do these buck wind compared to other magnum offerings at these ranges. I'd assume barrel life will be longer with Rem Mag over the Win mag with less powder being burned. Would either be good for 1000 yd shooting? With shorter powder columns supposedly being better for consistent burning and accuracy does the Rem mag show better groups compared to the Win mag? What's the recoil on these light bullet magnums comparable to? Given the lack of available factory loadings (and their expense) this would be a prime candidate for handloading, what kind of velocities have the reloaders been able to reach compared to the factory velocities? I'd also be interested in any information anyone can turn up about the 6.5 WSM. All thoughts on the subject are appreciated, and thanks in advance.

 

[Art Eatman]

Back in the late '60s, I bought a Model 70 in .264. Made in '66. 26" barrel. I set up to load for it. That particular rifle was a tack driver for a hunting rifle at 100 yards. Easily and regularly got five-shot groups in about 3/4" to 1" if I did my part. Occasionally better.

At one time, world records were set with 7mm Rem Mags.

What seems to be a winner in long-distance competition, nowadays, from posts at TFL and here, is the .308. I've read in the gunzines about others...

Art

 

[musher]

Hey talk about timing. I was just thinking about giving a guy a call about a custom 98 built in 264 win and was wondering about the caliber.

Looks like it would be a nice long range round for 200-400 lb critters. I was wondering about the muzzle blast myself. My hogdon manual makes a point of mentioning that it's a LOUD caliber.

 

[Zak Smith]

I would be very interested to hear about a "6.5" WSM.

 

[T.Stahl]

What about the 6.5-06? Would it qualify as a sort of a 6.5Magnum? I heard it has a flatter trajectory than the .300WinMag.

 

[Gewehr98]

Funny you should ask about the 6.5-06!

This makes me wonder if Winchester and Remington haven't down-rated their 6.5mm magnums:

Remington states ballistics for the 264 Win mag as 140 gr@ 3030 fps and for the 6.5 Rem Mag are 120 gr at 3210 fps. Very close.

Maybe it's the advances in the slower-burning powders since the mid-1960's, but I routinely and quite easily achieve 3200 fps from my 6.5-06 using 123gr Lapua Scenars, and almost 3100fps using 139gr Lapua Scenars. This is with fairly common powders like H4831SC, and IMR4350. It is indeed a flat-shooting cartridge, with less recoil than the .30-caliber magnums. A lot of the 6.5mm's allure is due to the streamlined nature of the bullets in that caliber. As an aside, there's a 6.5mm 120gr bullet sold by Lost River Ballistic Technologies that has a .687 BC, with a 132gr bullet at .702 BC, and a 140gr at .770 BC!

The .264 Winchester magnum caused quite a stir when introduced, making a name for itself as a flat-shooting and long-range round capable of taking deer-sized game in the wide open spaces of the American West. Then the 7mm Remington Magnum came along and took the wind out of the .264 Winchester's sails, and sales. The Winchester round garnered a reputation as a barrel-burner, much like the earlier .220 Swift did years before.

30+ years later, advances in powders and 6.5mm bullet designs made handloaders and wildcatters come back to the blackboard, giving us the 6.5-284 Winchester, the 6.5 PPC, and it's offspring, the 6.5 Grendel. The short magnums from Remington and Winchester have already been wildcatted for the .264 bore, and show promise, too.

One incarnation of the 6.5-06 has been around since at least the 1920's, when it was named the .256 Newton, and sold commercially until around WWII. The 6.5-06 has always maintained a following of some sorts, especially with the 1000-yard target shooters.

A fairly recent cousin of the 6.5-06, called the 6.5-284 Winchester, duplicates the performance of the 6.5-06, but in a shorter receiver length, which makes for a lighter rifle, and (some say) better accuracy. The USMC played with this round for a while, and it, too, made a large presence at the 1000-yard matches.

Other notable 6.5mm rounds include the venerable 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser, the European-favorite 6.5x57 Mauser, the 6.5-308 (now known as the .260 Remington), the 6.5x68 Schuler, and the 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum.

I keep my options fairly simple. I have several 6.5x55 Swedish Mausers, a couple 6.5-06 rifles, including one well-known example, and am in the process of assembling a 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum.

http://mauser98.com/interdiction.html

 

[kaferhaus]

264 Win Mag is indeed a barrel burner

If you go this route and plan to hunt only, then by all means i suggest you go for it. I shot them for 30yrs and it's my favorite cartridge for long range hunting.

However I once burnt one out "playing with it". just trying to get that little extra accuracy out of it.... Stainless barrels will last MUCH longer, but chrome moly are good for 800-1000 rounds max before the throat is blown out.

I too am playing with a "short magnum" 6.5, but haven't done enough work on it yet to make any meaningful statements about it.

6.5x57 and 6.5x06 are both excellent rounds!!

6.5x55 in modern guns with modern brass can be pushed quite a bit past the recommended manual loadings before they show any signs of pressure.

I'm not a fan of the 260.... on paper it should be much more than it has actually turned out to be and I do not know why...

I don't like the 7MM mag.... only because everyone has one!

If I could stand to shoot the 300 win mag on a regular basis, IT would be my favorite.........

Two of the most accurate rifles I've ever built (other than PPCs or the like) were both 300 Win Mags...

But OUCH...

 

[Mike Hull]

I'm not a fan of the 260.... on paper it should be much more than it has actually turned out to be and I do not know why...

The rifling in factory chambered rifles is way too slow for good accuracy with any of the common LR match bullets.

A custom barrel with a 1-8 twist will get you very good accuracy, indeed.

 

[schromf]

Gewehr98,

Good reply up to your usual quality responses.

I think the Win 264 Mag, has two feet in the grave and I don't see any chances of recovering it. Couple of reasons are one you already stated, the 6.5-06 and 6.5x284 get pretty close to the same velocity with the newer powders. The other is the remaining factory loads have backed off in the velocity from when it was introdcued, and the non magnums are doing pretty close to what the mag case is doing.

I just did a pretty long write up on this and I am going to include a few comments/observations below.

1. What is published currently is at least real numbers and the old factory loads were highly suspect of published velocities. Winchester published 3200 fps, but Speer Laboratory chronographed 3139 fps ( 26" tube), and Lyman documented 2958 fps ( 24" tube ) ** Source Ken Waters pg 186 Pet Loads. Current loads are listed as 3030 fps with 140 Remington or Winchester load.

2. Using my Sierra Manual as reference the 6.5x284 can be loaded to 2900 fps with a 140 gr bullet, and the 6.5-06 is capable of 2950 fps with a 140 gr bullet.

Which leads me to the conclusion; why bother with the 264 Mag if the Lymann chronograph numbers are correct. I attribute the big difference in the above chrono loads to barrel length, or 75 fps loss of velocity for every 1" of barrel length below 26" which makes the two independent sources pretty much jive on velocity.

The barrel burning isuue can be addressed on the 264 Mag by dropping the velocity down 50-75 fps and this would extend the barrel life quite a bit, but in doing this a comparission to the non mags listed above become even more critical. The cartridge was and is overbore for the caliber, and there are some shooters who are always looking for that extra edge, and I think it addresses that crowd.

In conclusion I admit I don't look to favorably on the 264 Win Mag, it doesn't mean if I had one I would consider rebarreling or changing it, I wouldn't, frankly if I inhereted an old pre 64 Winchester in this I would leave it just like it is and back off on my reloads as I stated above. But I would not have a new rifle made up in one of these either. There are better choices on the table with the 06 and 284 case.

 

[schromf]

Let me clarify something before I get trashed by the legions (?) of 264 Mag fans.

If I was building a new rifle, there are currently a lot better options on the table for a high velocity 6.5. They will both match velocity and exceed the accuracy potential of the older round.

Ideal would be a Remington long action in either the -06 or the 284 case. In the 284 long throat so the bullets can be seated out farther. Put a 27" or 28" tube on the rifle, but certainly nothing shorter than 26" and 3050 fps with a 140 gr bullet is a reasonable expectaion, and individual rifles tweaked like I suggest will get very close to 3200 fps.

My purpose is not to beat up on the 264 Mag, I just think there are better options on the table ATT.

 

[brass shower]

6.5 short magnums

I found some information on the 6.5 mm wildcat Winchester and Remington short magnums at http://www.reloadersnest.com . Both are yielding some impressive numbers and are nearly the same as the .264 Win mag loads listed on the same site. Lots of good load information available at that site by the way!

Velocities for the 6.5 Remington SAUM listed as
142 gr @ 3320 fps (30" bbl)
155 gr @ 3150 fps (30" bbl)

Velocities for the 6.5 WSM listed as
120 gr @ 3343 fps (27.5" bbl)
140 gr @ 3135 fps (27.5" bbl)
142 gr @ 3260 fps (27.5" bbl)

 

[ftierson]

The best magnum 6.5mm cartridge is the 6.5x55mm.

And I have a number of rifles chambered for it.