Hunting with 264 Winchester Magnum

[mshootnit]

I would like to know more about hunting with this cartridge, as well as rifle, bullet and powder choices. It seems that the new 6.5 craze has provided a few more bullet options at least. If you have any experience with the 264 Win mag, please share!
2 newer bullets that look promising to me:

Nosler Accubond LR:
https://www.nosler.com/accubond-long-range-bullet/
Hornady Eld-X
http://m.hornady.com/store/6.5mm-.264-143-gr-ELD-X/

 

[Scooter22]

No experience, just what I've read over the years. Very good long range cartridge but it burned up barrels fast. The odd 6.5mm never caught on. The Rem 7mm Mag became the winner. I think modern powders may be easier on the barrel and as you said there are many more good 6.5mm bullets available. Just make sure they will hold together at the .264 Mag velocity. Oh and check the throat and barrel. Good luck.

 

[cdb1]

I've always wanted a M70 Sporter chambered for that cartridge. The reason I don't is because the twist rate is too slow to stabilize many VLD bullets. So if you have or are thinking of getting one made by Winchester you will have limitations in bullet selection.

 

[Riomouse911]

the ELD-X needs a fast (1"-8" or thereabouts) twist to stabilize. Check the twist rate on your .264 to see if it's close enough to work well for you

 

[jmr40]

I can only say that I'm really impressed with the accuracy I'm getting from the 143 gr ELD-X bullets in my 6.5 Creedmoor. No experience with any other 6.5. Most 6.5 Creedmoors have a 1:8 twist. The only current production 264 I can find is Winchester and they show a 1:9 twist. Still OK for 140 gr Berger bullets according to their twist rate calculator, but Hornady does recommend 1:8. But looking at my crystal ball I don't see a bright future for the fast 6.5's or any other fast cartridge at any time in the near future.

Years ago everyone was looking to shoot light bullets as fast as possible in order to flatten trajectory and increase point blank range in order to eliminate guess work on range estimation. With todays better optics flat trajectory just isn't important. Shooters are finding that high BC bullets leaving the muzzle at 2700-2800 fps will hit harder down range with less wind drift, less recoil, longer barrel life and less cost than the magnums shooting lighter bullets at faster speeds.

The trajectory isn't as flat. But not as much different than a lot of folks think, and with range finders and BDC scopes simply not important.

The interest today in all of the 6.5's is because they are so efficient, it is a less is more trend. They tend to burn around 40 gr or less powder, don't burn up barrels, don't need long barrels for performance and have mild recoil while still performing well on game and targets.

 

[mshootnit]

Thank you for the information on the ELD-X.
Yes there are/were many "reasons" why 264 has been elbowed off of the table. Now what I was curious about, was any input from the current and former 264 Win mag owners.

 

[JimKirk]

If the .264 WM is used for hunting .... which it is designed for .... the barrels will last a lifetime. It is not really a target cartridge and if shot I that manner the barrel may not last as long as the 7mm Rem mag ...

But as a hunting gun ...it will give very good results ....

Just because you have a Corvette does not mean you have to drive 100 mph all the time ... the .264 can be loaded lighter too ...

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

A friend of mine has a couple 264's. He sent me his data for comparison to my 6.5-06AI.
I posted it on another thread a while back.

All loads are with 142 gr Sierra MK's

Loads I've worked up to in the Remington 700 .264 win mag with 24 in barrel.

H-4831SC 60 gr 2856 fps 32.0 Sd
VV N-560 60gr 2869 fps 6.0 Sd
VV N-165 58gr 2804 fps 21.3 Sd
IMR 7828 58gr 2844 fps 17.5 Sd*
Rel-25 63gr 2912 fps 5.3 Sd
VV N-170 65gr 2890 fps 30.4 Sd*
Magpro 62gr 2860 fps 69.0 Sd*
H-1000 64 gr 2924 fps 24.7 Sd*
Magnum 66gr 2879 fps 42.0 Sd
Retumbo 63gr 2824 fps 24.0 Sd
VV N-570 66gr 2919fps 23.0 Sd*
H US-869 76gr 3024fps 29.0 Sd

The 30 inch barrel gives another 100 to 200 fps over these loads.
Loads marked with * are not showing signs of pressure on primers yet and so will be increased a grain at a time until pressure signs appear.
The ones not marked with * are likely to be less than a grain or 2 away from max
It seems Sd varies quite a bit between guns so, to an extent, what is good in one may or may not be good in the other. I haven't tried many of these yet in the 30 in barrel..

I think both rifles have 1-8 twist.
Disclaimer: "Start low and work up"

 

[DM~]

Waaaay back when, I had a old M-70 chambered in .264 Win. Mag., I shot my first brown bear with it...

Yup, it NEEDED an bullet upgrade for sure!

DM

 

[Bbear]

Needing shoulder surgery at some point in my future, I sold off my 300 WM and 338 WM and 'dropped' down to a Win Model 70 sporter 1-9" twist 26" barreled 264.
Finding a load that shot the way I wanted was a bit of trial and error. I tried: I4831, RL26, H1000, I7828 and finally settled on RL33.

With RL 33 I'm pushing the 142 ABLR to 3200 fps (via magnetospeed measurements) with an SD of 14. I usually only fire 2 rounds then let the thin barrel cool off. Shooting groups in this manner gives me .5-.75" groups at 100. Playing with it out to 600 yards I'm figuring the B.C. on the ABLR is closer to .62-.630 though.
Used it to drop a pretty large 5x5 bull elk this year. First shot through the back of the shoulders at 137 yards dropped him right there. He got up and just stood there, dead on his feet. I learned early on, if he's standing or still acting like he wants to get up, plug him again, so, I did. Second shot entered the ham, through the pelvis traveled at an angle through the body and stopped on the inside of the off-side shoulder. That bullet was recovered and weighed 60 gr. I figured that bullet went through about 5 feet of elk and poked a nice hole in the pelvis and did what it needed to.

I also took a small white tail doe at 400 with it, punching through both shoulders. DRT with little blood shot meat.

FWIW, I also use that bullet in a 6.5x55 at 2800. Took a good sized axis doe at 109 yards that was DRT with a shot just behind the shoulder. .264" entry wound and .5" exit with little blood-shot meat.

I have no experience with the ELD series though.

 

[Offfhand]

Mention of the .264 Win Mag always gets my attention because I've been hunting with a Pre-64 Model-70 over 40 years. It's been one of my favorites for pronghorn, mule dear and I also take it along for rockchuck. Early on I had Al Bieson make a stock for it, which is shown in attached photo. The Leupold VX-L scope is a recent addition. As to barrel life, hard to say, but probably averages about half a box of bullets per year testing loads and bullets. Over 40+ years it adds up but rifle is still as accurate as four decades ago. (Actually more accurate, due to better bullets, scope, etc.) Twist is 1/9" which I consider ideal for 6.5. All my 6.5 1000 yd bench rifles in 6.5 Leopard chambering have a 1/9 twist and have been a winners with Burger 140gr VLD's.

 

[Llama Bob]

A couple of people have mentioned this, but the .264 really benefits from a 1:8" twist barrel. With the fast barrel, it will shoot anything from 85gr varmint bullets at 3800 ft/s to 160gr bonded protected points at 2950 ft/s. Legitimate for everything from varmints to elk.

With a 1:9" twist barrel you lose the spire point 160gr and some tipped/VLD/boat tail 140s. Takes away a lot of the versatility.

I'm currently pondering a 6.5 WSM on a M70 featherweight.

 

[horsey300]

I like the idea of the 6.5 leopard, does what the .264 wm likes but in a short action beltless! As per op, I do NOT have a .264 wm but I wouldn't turn one down!

 

[Llama Bob]

I like the idea of the 6.5 leopard, does what the .264 wm likes but in a short action beltless! As per op, I do NOT have a .264 wm but I wouldn't turn one down!

I wish Winchester would get around to standardizing the 6.5 WSM. There's an obvious market given the success of the 6.5mm cartridges on either side (Creedmoor and 26 Nosler). It's not a difficult cartridge to wildcat, but the lack of standardized dimensions (.270 vs .300 WSM source brass, turn vs. no-turn chambers) has made it far more complicated than need be.

 

[Offfhand]

With a 1:9" twist barrel you lose the spire point 160gr and some tipped/VLD/boat tail 140s. Takes away a lot of the versatility.

Attached is photo of my 6.5 Leopard loads with Berger 140 gr VLD bullets. In background are a few of the modest trophies I've won at 1000 yd benchrest tournaments with this combination. The barrel actually measures close to a 9.5" twist and has proven so accurate with this load combination that my next barrel will have a 1/10" twist, which I expect will prove even more accurate. Which has proven the case when I went to a slower twist with my 6mm bench rifles. Mr. Bob, assuming your are an expert on 6.5's and long range performance, I'm confident you will hasten to show us the trophies you've won in 1K competitions, which I'm sure are more impressive in size and numbers than my modest awards.

 

[Llama Bob]

Oh, I'm so impressed. Especially with your pathetically childlike attitude and the fact that you missed the word "Hunting" in the thread title.

Spend time with a twist rate calculator before choosing your twist rate. The Berger calculator is good.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
For example, if you put in the Berger 140 VLD, 3000 ft/s in a 1:9 twist at sea level, 50degF you'll see that stability is marginal and your BC will be reduced by 6% due to wobble.

If you shoot at high altitude, you can get away with a bit less twist. If you plan on hunting in the cold, you'll want a bit more. For 6.5mm magnums though you're generally best off with 1:8 as it will work for everything everywhere at all reasonable temperatures. You can always check with bullet manufacturers for a recommended twist rate, and they will tell you what I'm telling you - 1:8" for 140gr+ 6.5mm bullets.

 

[Offfhand]

If you shoot at high altitude, you can get away with a bit less twist. If you plan on hunting in the cold, you'll want a bit more. For 6.5mm magnums though you're generally best off with 1:8 as it will work for everything everywhere at all reasonable temperatures. You can always check with bullet manufacturers for a recommended twist rate, and they will tell you what I'm telling you - 1:8" for 140gr+ 6.5mm bullets.

As to hunting in cold weather, I've done a lot of it with my .264 Model-70 (Below zero Wyoming) as per my earlier post in this thread. (Please reference.) And as to elevation, My 6.5 Leopard was a match winner at Quantico with the Berger VLD's. in a 9.5" twist barrel. (Quantico, Va. is about as close as you can get to sea level without going under water.) But Sir, you must have been so involved in pointing out my "pathetically childlike attitude" that you forgot to elaborate on your very own personal experiences with 6.5 cartridges and bullets, and of course, your long range expertise. Please feel free to do so now. Photos of your 6.5 rifles and trophies will be beneficial and especially welcomed.

 

[cdb1]

With a 1:9" twist barrel you lose the spire point 160gr and some tipped/VLD/boat tail 140s. Takes away a lot of the versatility.

Attached is photo of my 6.5 Leopard loads with Berger 140 gr VLD bullets. In background are a few of the modest trophies I've won at 1000 yd benchrest tournaments with this combination. The barrel actually measures close to a 9.5" twist and has proven so accurate with this load combination that my next barrel will have a 1/10" twist, which I expect will prove even more accurate. Which has proven the case when I went to a slower twist with my 6mm bench rifles. Mr. Bob, assuming your are an expert on 6.5's and long range performance, I'm confident you will hasten to show us the trophies you've won in 1K competitions, which I'm sure are more impressive in size and numbers than my modest awards.View attachment 237184

To take offense at such an innocuous statement is very telling.

 

[Offfhand]

To take offense at such an innocuous statement is very telling.

I agree, I have no idea why Mr. Bob reacted so crudely when I was only trying to supply useful information. But I suppose attacking the messenger in crude terms is his normal response. Oh well, it's just the way the net is these days.

 

[Llama Bob]

You're just brilliant, aren't you? If you really believe 1:9" is a good twist for heavy 6.5mm, I suggest taking it up with ALL the bullet makers that tell their customers otherwise. But I'll tell you right now they're right and you're ignorant.

 

[cdb1]

I agree, I have no idea why Mr. Bob reacted so crudely when I was only trying to supply useful information. But I suppose attacking the messenger in crude terms is his normal response. Oh well, it's just the way the net is these days.

I wasn't talking about Bob.

 

[dickydalton]

I am still shooting a custom 1903A3 actioned 264 with a 26" barrel that I bought unfinished in 1974. It still shoots sub 1" MOA and no animal shot with it went anywhere after it was shot. I use 140 grain Nosler Partitions 99% of the time and 125 Partitions 1%. I did load up 120 Ballistic Tips for varmints years ago. I am still using H 870 powder.

 

[FN in MT]

The .264 Win mag is no different than ANY other cartridge, when used on the game it was intended for. With a properly placed slug of a weight appropriate for the game....It will work. THE biggest variable is PROPER PLACEMENT.