6.5x55, 6.5 Creedmoor and reloading

[David Hoback]

Question, because I really don't know:
I've heard from time to time that the .260 Remington is somewhat limited in bullet choices. Is that true?

The 260 Rem can use ANY bullet the Creedmoor does. They both use .264” bullets. Just need to be mindful of barrel Twist. The bench gun I built is 260 & runs a 1:8 Shilen. I ONLY reload for it, and run 140gr+ pills. I’m looking at the Hornady 153gr A-Tips & Berger 153.5gr offerings now.

Edit: As can the 6.5 Swede use the same. All three use the same 264” bullets. Any weight/length that one can use, the other two can provided correct barrel twist/throat etc.

 

[taliv]

Only if you hand feed bullets.

if you want to use AI magazines or similar then you’ll find yourself stuffing bullets deep into the case which uses up case capacity. The legacy 308win based cases like 260rem have short necks compared to creedmoor and the other cheater calibers

 

[Varminterror]

The 260 Rem can use ANY bullet the Creedmoor does.

This is not true. Mag length and sometimes also chamber length can limit the 260, which is why the 6.5 creed was invented in the first place.

 

[TarDevil]

you’ll find yourself stuffing bullets deep into the case which uses up case capacity

Thanks! I had forgotten exactly what the issue was.

 

[David Hoback]

Only if you hand feed bullets.

if you want to use AI magazines or similar then you’ll find yourself stuffing bullets deep into the case which uses up case capacity. The legacy 308win based cases like 260rem have short necks compared to creedmoor and the other cheater calibers

Uhh, no. I use the Magpul 10rd AICS mags because I like them, and they accept roughly an 2.860” OAL. The Accurate mag allows a 2.950” OAL. In any case, even at SAAMI 2.800”, the 260 STILL takes more powder than the Creedmoor. And Load vs Load it will ALWAYS deliver higher velocity.

 

[taliv]

For reference, 260rem USAMU loaded with 142g. Left is 153g a tip, right is Berger 140g hybrid and 135g jlk
I used a box to line the tips up. the 142g may look longer But that’s due to other bullets laying on table while the 142g is held up slightly off the table in the case. Camera angle is above the bases so you can see the difference.

I don’t shoot creedmoor so don’t have one for comparison but it is a shorter case with longer neck but it also has less body taper so more volume in the body.

most folks pursuing accuracy don't want the bullet protruding that far into the case for lots of reasons. and while i like velocity, there's a reason i shoot the shorter 6.5x47L instead of the 260rem or even 260AI i used to shoot.

 

[David Hoback]

Mostly fair.. although your picture is a bit misleading. (And it’s got nothing to do with camera angle)

I’m not against any of them. I like the x47 s well. But it won’t do what a what 260 will do, ALL OUT.

Here’s an old post from some years back I like. (Not from this forum & not from me. I won’t reveal the source.). When the 260 & 6.5CM were referenced as the same thing.

“No they are not the same round. The .260 has slightly more case capacity. .260 is 100-150 FPS faster than 6.5 CM. It has only "won" in the minds of people who do what everyone else does and don't reload. The "I don't even know, what I don't even know, but can't stop talking about it" crowd.
Those of us who bothered to get both and do the research and testing, the 6.5 CM came out second best. .308 / 7-08 / .243 brass becomes .260 with one pass through the die. “

That is a great post! Again though, I don’t hate any of them. It’s really not about “best”. It’s about best for YOURSELF! If someone is building their own rifle, reloading and asks what has the highest performance while still fitting in a Short Action magazine… well, I guess “technically” we’d have to say the 6.5 Rem mag.. but let’s not get into that! The answer to this is the 260 Rem. And for those who like playing around, the 260AI. But if someone says they want turn key performance & off the shelf ammo choices, I’m gonna tell them 6.5CM. Although, the question posed here was about 6.5 Swede & 6.5CM. And the OP seems to have the want of having his own custom. (That was important to me as well.. especially being that I built it.. not someone else.) So again, keeping things equal.. ya know… Apples to Apples? The 6.5 Swede will outgun the 6.5CM & the 6.5x47.

 

[stillquietvoice]

I know. I just hate that you have to reload the Swede just to get it to factory Creedmoor performance.

European ammo manufactures load the sweede to a higher performance level than U.S. manufacturers do, allegedly to not destroy older designs.

 

[David Hoback]

To the OP: Here’s a great article.

https://mdttac.ca/blog/capable-and-versatile-a-close-look-at-the-65x55-swedish/

 

[jmr40]

If you're putting together a custom rifle and handload 6.5X55. 260, and 6.5CM all do pretty much the same thing. If you want to buy off the shelf rifles and ammo go 6.5CM. In fact at this point it is just a lot easier all around to just go 6.5CM. But if you just want to do it with either 260 or 6.5X55 then go for it.

The .260 has slightly more case capacity. .260 is 100-150 FPS faster than 6.5 CM.

Depends on the bullets and the rifle you use. The 260 was designed around 120 gr bullets and it still does OK with 130 gr bullets and will surpass 6.5 CM velocities. It is even acceptable with 140 gr "HUNTING" bullets. But when you load longer 140-150 gr high BC bullets in a 260 case, and load them to fit in a factory 260 magazine the bullets protrude so far into the case that the greater case capacity is lost. In the real world with those bullets the 6.5CM has a slight edge.

If hand load 260 cartridges with those longer bullets seated farther out to regain the case capacity then you can match 6.5 CM. But you would also need to build a custom 260 rifle with a barrel twisted to shoot the longer bullets. And modify the magazine and chamber to fit those longer cartridges.

That's exactly why the 6.5 CM exists. To match what custom gun builders had already been doing with 260, but offer it in factory rifles and loads. They COULD have offered factory ammo loaded this way, and factory rifles to shoot it chambered in 260 and it would have done exactly what 6.5 CM does. But no matter how big the warning label was, someone would have tried to load ammo into the wrong gun. It just made sense to develop a slightly different case to prevent this.

 

[horsemen61]

If you're putting together a custom rifle and handload 6.5X55. 260, and 6.5CM all do pretty much the same thing. If you want to buy off the shelf rifles and ammo go 6.5CM. In fact at this point it is just a lot easier all around to just go 6.5CM. But if you just want to do it with either 260 or 6.5X55 then go for it.



Depends on the bullets and the rifle you use. The 260 was designed around 120 gr bullets and it still does OK with 130 gr bullets and will surpass 6.5 CM velocities. It is even acceptable with 140 gr "HUNTING" bullets. But when you load longer 140-150 gr high BC bullets in a 260 case, and load them to fit in a factory 260 magazine the bullets protrude so far into the case that the greater case capacity is lost. In the real world with those bullets the 6.5CM has a slight edge.

If hand load 260 cartridges with those longer bullets seated farther out to regain the case capacity then you can match 6.5 CM. But you would also need to build a custom 260 rifle with a barrel twisted to shoot the longer bullets. And modify the magazine and chamber to fit those longer cartridges.

That's exactly why the 6.5 CM exists. To match what custom gun builders had already been doing with 260, but offer it in factory rifles and loads. They COULD have offered factory ammo loaded this way, and factory rifles to shoot it chambered in 260 and it would have done exactly what 6.5 CM does. But no matter how big the warning label was, someone would have tried to load ammo into the wrong gun. It just made sense to develop a slightly different case to prevent this.

That pretty much sums it up but if you want a Swede I say go for it!

 

[KansasTrapper77]

I think Jmr40 is right. We already had several options for 6mm and 6.5mm in America but they were made during the era of speed. So all the manufacturers designed for short light bullets with slow twists so you could laser beam rounds out to 200/300 yards. Hence all the rifles reflect that. Now the current trend is big long bullets and fast twists to stabilize them. So if you’re a purist or a traditionalist you can make a .243 or a .260 that competes with the modern day equivalent. But the rifle and ammo will be specialized to that gun. Whats nice though is most factory .243 ammo will perform safely in your specialized rifle. Just not as well. The 6.5 Creed is not a new idea just a transition back to an old idea that was safer, cleaner, easier for the manufacturers.

Now, 6.5 Swede. I LOVE your heavy barrel custom idea. Probably because I dislike the hype around 6.5 Creed. I know a-lot of people who don’t understand the basic ballistics and think they’re inherently more accurate with a 6.5 Creed. Those who understand what they’re getting and what they want, go for it! The Creed just doesn’t magically make you Chris Kyle. To me what makes the 6.5x55 cool is like most military rifles pre-WWI everyone thought it was better to shoot the heaviest round nose bullet possible with a fast twist. But quickly most militaries decided for general infantry use it’d be better to lighten up the bullet for ease of shooting inside 300 yards. And so on and so forth. So I think the Swede is cool because the cartridge and it’s manufacturers did play along with military requests and lightened up a little but they kinda stuck to their guns and kept the long heavy bullets and fast twists to weather the storm. Now we’ve came full circle. The Swede has more history. Make yourself a sweet custom rifle. If I ever find it on the shelf in a Cabela’s gun library I’d drool over it.

 

[eastbank]

i shoot a cz 550 in 6.5x55 with a 24" barrel and 1-8 tw and useing N-560 can push a 140-142 gr bullets at 2900 fps, the mag box on the cz can take a loaded 3006, so no problem with seating the bullets way out to use all the powder space. the load was lattered up useing a croney and is safe in my rifle. i have a 6.5x20 leupold on the rifle and soda can,s at 300 meters are pretty much one shot hits from a bench.

 

[The Glockodile]

...and handload 6.5X55. 260, and 6.5CM...

On an Accuracy International platform (there are others, I'm sure) - the latter two are usually just a barrel change.

https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/260-remington-vs-6-5-creedmoor-vs-6-5x55-swede/

Going by this article, it looks like loading single rounds with the Swede on said platform isn't possible due to the larger rim - but for some reason I thought it was.

 

[mavracer]

So if you’re a purist or a traditionalist you can make a .243 or a .260 that competes with the modern day equivalent.

Wasn't my experience built a 1 in 7 heavy barrel 243 Win AR10 and it shot good or at least so I though. I was looking to get a bolt gun and came across a 6mm Creed RPR for a great price. Long story short 243 is just much harder to get SD low enough with long 105-107 pills to compete over 800.
I rebarreled the AR10 to 6mm Creed, it's also a good plus that I can even now get Hornady Black 105 HPBT for $23 a box.

 

[Roverguy]

The action length “debate” is hysterical. Talk about much ado about nothing!

The issue is really economic vs aesthetic. You can buy a rifle today off the shelf chambered in 6.5 CM that will deliver 6.5x55 ballistics and sub MOA accuracy pretty much ‘out of the box’ and cheaper than building a rifle chambered in 6.5x55 that might not be sub MOA or may need work to get it there.

But if you shy away from ubiquity and can afford the indulgence, build the Swede.

 

[KansasTrapper77]

Wasn't my experience built a 1 in 7 heavy barrel 243 Win AR10 and it shot good or at least so I though. I was looking to get a bolt gun and came across a 6mm Creed RPR for a great price. Long story short 243 is just much harder to get SD low enough with long 105-107 pills to compete over 800.
I rebarreled the AR10 to 6mm Creed, it's also a good plus that I can even now get Hornady Black 105 HPBT for $23 a box.

Obviously I don’t know all the details and I’m not disagreeing with your experience. Do you think it being an autoloader made it more difficult? I’m really tempted to get a heavy slow barreled .243 bolt gun because I have other .243s and like the old cartridge.

 

[Varminterror]

Load vs Load it will ALWAYS deliver higher velocity.

“Load vs. Load,” the 260 case would have lesser fill capacity and lower pressure, so it ALWAYS runs slower than the Creedmoor.

Loaded to the same PRESSURE, then yes, the larger case is faster. But not with the same powder charge.

 

[Varminterror]

Long story short 243 is just much harder to get SD low enough

That’s a real deal.

I used a couple dozen barrels in 243win and 243AI for many years before the 6 creed case came about - and it was my favorite LR cartridge for that era - but I was always trying to make the 243win act more like a Dasher. The 6 Creed isn’t quite as daftly simple to load as consistently as Dasher, but it’s certainly an easy button over 243win.

 

[mavracer]

Do you think it being an autoloader made it more difficult?

No because I'm getting single digit SDs with the 6 Creed AR now too. I think it's the bullet encroaching into the powder column. I think if you could load to a longer OAL it would be easier to get a 243 to work and make the extra 100 fps worth it.
But to be honest I don't even run my 6s that hard and probably give up 100 fps from what max effort would get.

 

[gotboostvr]

No because I'm getting single digit SDs with the 6 Creed AR now too. I think it's the bullet encroaching into the powder column. I think if you could load to a longer OAL it would be easier to get a 243 to work and make the extra 100 fps worth it.
But to be honest I don't even run my 6s that hard and probably give up 100 fps from what max effort would get.

As nice as the 6 creed (and 243AI) looks on paper ballistics wise, running them at full steam can be pretty hard on barrel life.

That 100fps off the top, might be buying you a considerable amount of throat erosion.

I know they're not quite as flat shooting, but I've been debating a 6ARC or 6 Dasher/BR/NBR bolt gun to get a little better longevity and I think they're a little more efficient in the ~18" barrel length I'm thinking about.

 

[mavracer]

hat 100fps off the top, might be buying you a considerable amount of throat erosion.

Maybe I need to ramp it up and burn up the Ruger barrel faster so I can screw a WOA barrel on it lol.

 

[gotboostvr]

Maybe I need to ramp it up and burn up the Ruger barrel faster so I can screw a WOA barrel on it lol.

That's certainly another way of looking at it!

 

[Wayne Clemon]

I am a Swede fan at heart. I know there are probably better options out for a specified purpose, but I guess I like older, not-as-popular underdog.

With that said, here is my dilemma.........

I have always wanted a heavy, threaded barreled Swede. I know that the cartridge is under-loaded at factory and you have to reload to get it up to Creedmoor equivalent specs. I also know that the Swede has more case capacity. And that the Creedmoor can be reloaded to get more out of it.

So, am I wasting my time wanting to build a heavy barreled Swede for 800+ yard when I should just go with a factory heavy barreled Creedmoor than will do basically the same thing and not tie up 6 months doing a Swede build? Time is not an issue, just pondering if I am creating more issues and over thinking everything just to stick with a Swede.

Nosler load data has the Swede going past the creedmore over 100fps. I use the same data with good results out of a stock howa. Norma factory loads run about the same. American commercial ammo and most published data are very conservative to be safe for the old military surplus guns.

 

[Wayne Clemon]

I know. I just hate that you have to reload the Swede just to get it to factory Creedmoor performance.

Norma has factory ammo that will get you there.