7-30 waters vs 7-08

[WestKentucky]

Looking at some threads recently where people are shooting 7-08 I started looking at the numbers. The numbers I tend to look at first are case capacity and maximum pressure. 7-08 wins in both categories, but still the 7-30 is a player. Maybe a minor league player vs a major leaguer but either way it’s in the game. I also saw a couple posts on some older threads (24hrcampfire, TFL) from when the Waters was still somewhat available that claimed that the waters only fell back 250-300 FPS from the 7-08. That velocity can be found in the 7-30 pretty easily when dropping to a 120gr bullet, and even in the 140 gr bullet the majority of the velocity gap can be closed if you consider basic 7-08 and hotrod 7-30.

I already shoot 7-30 in a contender pistol, reload for it and enjoy it. Am I missing something big that I need to pay attention to? Typical drop from both rounds leaves about 4 inches difference between them at 300 yards, and if the 7-30 is hotrodded a bit it will be more like 2 inches. Using the same bullets it goes to reason that with a bit slower start then the shot window for bullet expansion is a bit smaller, but unless it were to be used on game larger than deer or further away than I would shoot anyways that seems negligible as well.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I'd wager the lack of popularity has more to do with it being a rimmed cartridge, which are not well suited to bolt actions where the advantages of 7mm and 6.5mm bullets in smaller cartridges are realized. Most factory 7-30 ammo is loaded with lever actions in mind, and a 7mm RNFP really doesn't do anything better than a .30 cal RNFP.

Start hand loading for single shots, and yes, the round will begin to shine. But you have to remember that the extreme majority of hunters are not hand loaders and use bolt actions, so if they're looking for a softer recoiling 7mm round that's well suited to hunting, they’re going to look at 7mm-08 and 7x57.

 

[troy fairweather]

I've seen 24" 7 -30s get about 2700 with 120s and about 2600 with 140s that's no slouch.

Soon I'm hoping to order the 24" barrel for that savage 340 I picked up. I'd like to see what the round does with some of the newer powders. Hornady has the ftx bullet and ammo now.

 

[BreechFace]

There was a Win94 in 7-30 Waters that was on a local buy sell board. They wanted $1,400 for it. Interesting enough for me to take a look at the ad, but not at that price. Would be a cool lever, for a 7mm guy like myself.

 

[troy fairweather]

They were going for over $1000 after they stoped making them

 

[Varminterror]

Am I missing something big that I need to pay attention to?

Yes.

You’re pretty dismissive about the extra power of the 7-08. The statement specifically stating the ~300fps lost can be reclaimed by using lighter bullets, as an example: first, you’re not comparing similar load standards if you’re pushing a 120grn 7-30 to the same speed as a 140 7-08. The 7-30 doesn’t have the horsepower - it’ll drive a 100-110 to about the same speed as the ‘08 will push a 140, but not a 120. Secondly, you’re giving up considerable on-game performance by giving up those grains of bullet weight. We see it proven time and time again in the field, and recounted on this board and hundreds of others like it - bullet weight means much more than velocity in this type of comparison. Dropping from 140 to 120, or really to 100grn means you’re giving up considerable ballistic coefficient and sectional density - a 140 has an SD of .248, while a 120 drops to .212, and a 110 which actually can be driven to the same speed as the 140 in the ‘08 drops to .195. That’s not inconsequential in terms of penetration potential. You’re also giving up a full point (or point and a half) in ballistic coefficient. The 7-30 is a dandy cartridge for short barrel efficiency, but it’s not apt to claim it’s more than it is.

But it IS apt to point out that the 7-08 is certainly “enough more than enough” for short range deer hunting, such the “less” of the 7-30 is still “enough.” Given two of the same rifle in both, I’d prefer the 7-08, but there are some rifles which lend themselves better to the 7-30 than the ‘08, such both can have a logical niche.

 

[d2wing]

Varminterror put it very well well, another thing is lever guys tend to like bigger and more traditional cartridges. I can see a benefit in the 7mm Waters but I think it will remain not very popular.

 

[Hangingrock]

I had a 7-30 Waters Winchester M94 (? Angle Eject ?) Outside of Handloader giving it a good write up components such as the Nosler Flat-Nose were hard to to come by early on. It was Waters baby and he gave it a good write but I was not that impressed.

 

[George P]

Back in the 80s and the heyday of metallic silhouette, the TCs in 7-30 went up against the XP-100 in 7mmBR, not 7-08. The 7-08s went head to head with the 308s.