7.62 Yahweh cartridge, is anyone familiar with it?

[CoalCrackerAl]

If i want a 30 cal bullet to go faster. I'll load the appropriate cartridge.

 

[Slamfire]

I am of the opinion that the Soviets knew what they were doing when they came up with a 40 Kpsia cartridge. The best combat cartridges (just up to WW2) were 40 kpsia ish, and I believe for a number of reasons. High pressure requires more expensive alloy steels. Low pressure allows the use of cheap carbon steels. Alloys, such as nickel, can be very hard to acquire when the ocean is filled with U Boats and Sharks! High pressure causes more function issues as things get hot. That includes ambient temperatures and gun temperatures.

When it comes to hitting your target and lethality, the more means more mantra is simplistic and shallow. You can see some parts of the debate in literature, pre WW1 trajectory and range was everything. Unfortunately all the trained marksman were dead in the first 9 months of WW1 and WW2, and the guys who were left were ineffective at anything but short distances. An American Rifleman article during WW2 reported (I think 1944 time frame) that some Officers were not letting their men shoot at Germans more than 300 yards away as they would not hit, but would receive artillery rounds in retaliation!.

As you know, the AK47 was not developed as a long range weapon. Pretty much the Russians were happy if their soldiers could hit something at 300 yards. (The Soviets issued millions of 7.62 submachine guns in that war. Those were lethal out to 300 yards, but clearly, hitting anything at that distance full auto was futile) Post WW2, the M16 was developed for 300 yard shooting, as the combat analysts came to the conclusion that longer range shooting was a waste.

Today, if the drone sees you, you are dead. I read the Russians have 10,000 drones operating over a 600 mile battlefield. If the drone does not get you, the artillery sent down on your position will.

The developers have taken an existing intermediate cartridge, raised the pressures, and got more velocity. We have a mouse that roared. Absolutely you can spin something faster when you increases the stresses on the mechanism. But at some level, as muscle cars guys used to say: "there is no replacement for displacement".

 

[Jim Watson]

Well, the US Army has been souping up the 5.56 all along. The M855A1 is said to operate at higher pressure than previous loads, all of which were hotter than the parent .222.

 

[Slamfire]

Well, the US Army has been souping up the 5.56 all along. The M855A1 is said to operate at higher pressure than previous loads, all of which were hotter than the parent .222.

I don't know it for a fact, but I am pretty sure the original Wildcat round that became the 5.56 round, was a 50 K psia round. The originator used a slide rule (the Powley) In Government documents, you find the Army very early bumped pressures up to 52K, all to meet a velocity requirement of 3250 fps. For some reason 3250 fps was sacred. Not making now with the M4, are they? Then the Army bumped it up again when they went WC846 powder.

The thing is, with the military, they had this cartridge and rifle shoved up their tush by OSD, and once lodged in the big intestine, DARCOM became the poodle dog of Colt, And the Army embraced with the combination with revolutionary fervor, just as a good poodle dog should do. The cartridge had little margin for enhancements that did not create more and more pressure. Which is hard on rifles. Now the military can afford to shoot gold bullets, if need be, because the American taxpayer has an infinitely big wallet. The National Debt only increases by a trillion dollars every 100 days! Lets make that every 30 days and see what happens in two years!

 

[Jim Watson]

Which wildcat was that?

 

[InTheSwamp]

I'll sit this one out and wait for the 6.5 Moses.

 

[entropy]

Nah, pigtail gas tubes have been around a long time.

They're a dumb idea, but they're not new, and not unique to this particular idiot and his cartridge.

They were useful when we had short barrels we wanted in Recon unit rifles, and rifle length gas tube of only one i.d. Now, yes, not needed.

 

[entropy]

I’m the inventor of the 7.62 Yahweh cartridge and I named it that because God gave me the idea so out of honor and respect I put his name on it. The cartridge does exist and it amazes me that someone who has never seen it in person touched it held it shot it looked at the primer measured the case head strain guaged it or had it piezoelectric tested by HP White laboratory would show that kind of ignorance. We sell the reloading size die for the Yahweh and then all you need is a set of Lee 7.62x39 dies and you’re ready to load for it. In response to the inquiry about can it be used in a SKS or a AK 47 The answer is no due to shoulder diameter and overall length, however it can be used in a bolt action rifle and if you are interested I would be happy to help you out with a gun smith in my area and I would charge you 20 dollars for the use of the reamer. I would suggest that you use a.308 diameter with a 1-8 twist so you can use all the.308 bullets and still shoot the 7.62x39 and the subsonics but that is up to you. The pressure level for the Yahweh is 52,000 lbs the same as the Grendel. To the guy who thinks that more pressure will equate to more velocity you are mistaken it can create less velocity depending upon the pressure curve because the velocity comes from the area under the pressure curve so you can have more pressure and a high spike and have less velocity, I had to learn that also. I have 8 years in development and load listings for 110 gr 125 gr 135gr 150gr 155gr and the Sub- X 255 grain subsonic bullet. The cartridge has a 17.30 degree shoulder angle that transitions to the 30 degree angle and what this does is to head space the 7.62x39 and align it perfectly and upon firing it fire forms and has about 30,000 lbs pressure but due to the efficiency of the 30 degree shoulder angle it still gets the same velocity as a normal 7.62x39. P.O. Ackley just smashed the shoulder into the chamber and fire formed it that way, proper head spacing is better. I do appreciate the constructive criticism about seeing the cartridge case that was not intentional and I am going to be posting on the website a diagram of the 7.62x39 case drawn inside of the Yahweh case so you can see the difference and know how we get the additional 5-8 grains of powder. The parent case was the 6 mm PPC case. The double wrap gas tube is absolutely necessary due to the vast difference in pressure it gives it the dwell time so that the bolt doesn’t open up under pressure so instead of spouting off maybe watching the explanation on the video and asking questions would be wizer. If you have questions you can ask them on the website.

I'm guessing you didn't want certain religious groups buying it. You seem to have offended a lot of people with the name.
Pigtail gas tubes have been around a while, I'm sure they weren't new when I did some for 10" barreled M-16's in the 80's. (When the XM177E2 had been retired and the M-4 hadn't been issued yet)
We did it that way then because we had to, there was only one inner diameter of gas tube in the inventory, and no time to source anything else.
There are better ways these days. For a man who claims to have been inspired by the Almighty, you seem rather thin skinned.

 

[The inventer]

I wouldnt mind a clearer explanation of how the cartridge design generates the added velocity.

I do understand the concept of a longer, flatter, pressure curve transferring my energy to the projectile at the same peak pressure.

How does the cartridge design promote that flatter curve (longer time under higher pressure).

Also how does the twisty gas tube benefit operation? Your not reducing port pressure like moving it down the barrel (towards the other end of your now extended pressure curve), but also compensating with an agb.

Ill admit honest curiosity, ive got no back ground in this stuff outside of what ive experienced.

The 30 degree shoulder angle helps hold the powder in the case and burn more of it in the case and much more efficiently as opposed to the 39 with its very tapered case squashing the powder and pushing and burning it down the barrel. Part of the additional velocity gain is in the chamber design and more of the slower burning powders gives you the longer push and helps the pressure curve line to be closer to a 90 angle which is the most efficient burn you can get according to the strain gauge man. As to your second question I already tried that and that resulted in not enough pressure when you fired the 762x39 there wasn’t enough pressure to operate the system hence a carbine length system, to have pressure enough to operate it, but then I had to have more dwell time so the bolt would not open up under too much pressure when the Yahweh was fired in it IE too soon so the longer spiral gas tube which is longer and it takes the gas longer to get from gas block to the BCG this allows the chamber pressure to come down to safe levels and makes it easy on the brass. I am running Grendel pressures and getting good brass life also. I hope this helps PO Ackley had similar results with a couple of short fat cartridges that he did. I can get 2600 to 2650 FPS out of a 150 bullet and it will go through a 300 lb black bear my son and I have both done this and they make fantastic bear breakfast sausage.

 

[LoonWulf]

The 30 degree shoulder angle helps hold the powder in the case and burn more of it in the case and much more efficiently as opposed to the 39 with its very tapered case squashing the powder and pushing and burning it down the barrel. Part of the additional velocity gain is in the chamber design and more of the slower burning powders gives you the longer push and helps the pressure curve line to be closer to a 90 angle which is the most efficient burn you can get according to the strain gauge man. As to your second question I already tried that and that resulted in not enough pressure when you fired the 762x39 there wasn’t enough pressure to operate the system hence a carbine length system, to have pressure enough to operate it, but then I had to have more dwell time so the bolt would not open up under too much pressure when the Yahweh was fired in it IE too soon so the longer spiral gas tube which is longer and it takes the gas longer to get from gas block to the BCG this allows the chamber pressure to come down to safe levels and makes it easy on the brass. I am running Grendel pressures and getting good brass life also. I hope this helps PO Ackley had similar results with a couple of short fat cartridges that he did. I can get 2600 to 2650 FPS out of a 150 bullet and it will go through a 300 lb black bear my son and I have both done this and they make fantastic bear breakfast sausage.

Thank you for the reply!
Ive played with the Idea of an improved x39 a few times. I read something somewhere of a smith running a .240wby reamer into the chamber of an x39 to straighten the walls and change the shoulder, but sold my sks before I could mess with the idea beyond speculation.
What was the water capacity of your cartridge? I might have missed it, if so I apologise.

 

[The inventer]

I am of the opinion that the Soviets knew what they were doing when they came up with a 40 Kpsia cartridge. The best combat cartridges (just up to WW2) were 40 kpsia ish, and I believe for a number of reasons. High pressure requires more expensive alloy steels. Low pressure allows the use of cheap carbon steels. Alloys, such as nickel, can be very hard to acquire when the ocean is filled with U Boats and Sharks! High pressure causes more function issues as things get hot. That includes ambient temperatures and gun temperatures.

When it comes to hitting your target and lethality, the more means more mantra is simplistic and shallow. You can see some parts of the debate in literature, pre WW1 trajectory and range was everything. Unfortunately all the trained marksman were dead in the first 9 months of WW1 and WW2, and the guys who were left were ineffective at anything but short distances. An American Rifleman article during WW2 reported (I think 1944 time frame) that some Officers were not letting their men shoot at Germans more than 300 yards away as they would not hit, but would receive artillery rounds in retaliation!.

As you know, the AK47 was not developed as a long range weapon. Pretty much the Russians were happy if their soldiers could hit something at 300 yards. (The Soviets issued millions of 7.62 submachine guns in that war. Those were lethal out to 300 yards, but clearly, hitting anything at that distance full auto was futile) Post WW2, the M16 was developed for 300 yard shooting, as the combat analysts came to the conclusion that longer range shooting was a waste.

Today, if the drone sees you, you are dead. I read the Russians have 10,000 drones operating over a 600 mile battlefield. If the drone does not get you, the artillery sent down on your position will.

The developers have taken an existing intermediate cartridge, raised the pressures, and got more velocity. We have a mouse that roared. Absolutely you can spin something faster when you increases the stresses on the mechanism. But at some level, as muscle cars guys used to say: "there is no replacement for displacement".

The rifle cartridge is at Grendel pressures and it isn’t stressed. Please pay attention! I have found is that the Yahweh cartridge with Speer 150 grain Gold Dots drops deer in their tracks and my M1 Grand with 165 grain Nosler Ballistic tips let’s them run and always into the worst possible places this is counter intuitive but reality, and my Pastor has had similar results. Remember it is not over pressured and I have H P White laboratories paper work to prove it and they’re one of the worlds best ballistic laboratories.

 

[The inventer]

Thank you for the reply!
Ive played with the Idea of an improved x39 a few times. I read something somewhere of a smith running a .240wby reamer into the chamber of an x39 to straighten the walls and change the shoulder, but sold my sks before I could mess with the idea beyond speculation.
What was the water capacity of your cartridge? I might have missed it, if so I apologise.

I’m sorry I don’t know I haven’t tried that yet you’re the first one to ask that but I’m getting 5-8 grains more powder but that also depends on which case you use because the 39 cases are about 2-3 grains smaller than the 6mm ppc case and they vary a lot from brand to brand and manufacturer to manufacturer. If you want to purchase I will help you anyway I can I have load data and a size die and then you can load what suits you. I have an order for brass but it is still waiting I am a class 6 ammunition manufacturer. I also have a list of 39 casings that are only 2 grains less than the 6ppc case. The Yahweh is designed for the AR platform and bolt rifles the AK platform is2.200 while the A R platform is 2.500 O.A.L. The AK is usually Crome lined so you could not ream it anyway a 2.5 Grendel rebarreled would work. I hope this was helpful.

 

[LoonWulf]

I’m sorry I don’t know I haven’t tried that yet you’re the first one to ask that but I’m getting 5-8 grains more powder but that also depends on which case you use because the 39 cases are about 2-3 grains smaller than the 6mm ppc case and they vary a lot from brand to brand and manufacturer to manufacturer. If you want to purchase I will help you anyway I can I have load data and a size die and then you can load what suits you. I have an order for brass but it is still waiting I am a class 6 ammunition manufacturer. I also have a list of 39 casings that are only 2 grains less than the 6ppc case. The Yahweh is designed for the AR platform and bolt rifles the AK platform is2.200 while the A R platform is 2.500 O.A.L. The AK is usually Crome lined so you could not ream it anyway a 2.5 Grendel rebarreled would work. I hope this was helpful.

Ive quite a few irons in the fire at the moment, but that kind of capacity increase is impressive to say the least, the 30ARX only gains 3gr of water using a straight Grendel case. Im assuming the 2.5" OAL listed for the AR was a typo?

 

[Jim Watson]

I can get 2600 to 2650 FPS out of a 150 bullet

I should hope it would kill a deer or bear; in earlier days and older guns this was known as the .300 Savage and was loudly proclaimed as "The Ultimate Deer Rifle." Which is really the .257 Roberts but anyhow... my question is why your "Grand" won't.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

The 30 degree shoulder angle helps hold the powder in the case and burn more of it in the case and much more efficiently as opposed to the 39 with its very tapered case squashing the powder and pushing and burning it down the barrel. Part of the additional velocity gain is in the chamber design and more of the slower burning powders gives you the longer push and helps the pressure curve line to be closer to a 90 angle which is the most efficient burn you can get according to the strain gauge man. As to your second question I already tried that and that resulted in not enough pressure when you fired the 762x39 there wasn’t enough pressure to operate the system hence a carbine length system, to have pressure enough to operate it, but then I had to have more dwell time so the bolt would not open up under too much pressure when the Yahweh was fired in it IE too soon so the longer spiral gas tube which is longer and it takes the gas longer to get from gas block to the BCG this allows the chamber pressure to come down to safe levels and makes it easy on the brass. I am running Grendel pressures and getting good brass life also. I hope this helps PO Ackley had similar results with a couple of short fat cartridges that he did. I can get 2600 to 2650 FPS out of a 150 bullet and it will go through a 300 lb black bear my son and I have both done this and they make fantastic bear breakfast sausage.

What length barrel?? You do know that the 30 Rem AR with a max pressure of 55kpsi and 44gr H20 case capacity can only manage to get a 150gr bullet to 2700fps in the real world out of real firearms. And you mean to convince us that with lower max pressure and less case capacity you're nipping on the heels of that, with a twisted gas tube, a fancy cartridge design, and what I presume to be shorter barrel. Color me skeptical

 

[Robert]

A 7.62x39 with a different shoulder? Yawn.

 

[Jim Watson]

No, no, it is a 6mm PPC necked up with a different angle at the expansion.

Oh, I didn't catch it if he said, small primer or large? The PPC made its mark with small, didn't it?

 

[Varminterror]

I am going to be posting on the website a diagram of the 7.62x39 case drawn inside of the Yahweh case so you can see the difference and know how we get the additional 5-8 grains of powder.

I'm interested to see this.

 

[someguy2800]

I’m sorry I don’t know I haven’t tried that yet you’re the first one to ask that but I’m getting 5-8 grains more powder but that also depends on which case you use because the 39 cases are about 2-3 grains smaller than the 6mm ppc case and they vary a lot from brand to brand and manufacturer to manufacturer. If you want to purchase I will help you anyway I can I have load data and a size die and then you can load what suits you. I have an order for brass but it is still waiting I am a class 6 ammunition manufacturer. I also have a list of 39 casings that are only 2 grains less than the 6ppc case. The Yahweh is designed for the AR platform and bolt rifles the AK platform is2.200 while the A R platform is 2.500 O.A.L. The AK is usually Crome lined so you could not ream it anyway a 2.5 Grendel rebarreled would work. I hope this was helpful.

Just to clarify, are you saying you get a 5-8 grain increase in H20 case capacity after fireforming X39 brass, or when using fireformed 6mm ppc brass compared to standard X39 brass? A 14-22% gain in case capacity just from blowing out the shoulder seams a lot.

 

[Varminterror]

A 14-22% gain in case capacity just from blowing out the shoulder seams a lot.

Just blowing out PART of the shoulder - remember, he's leaving the x39 shoulder next to the neck alone, and only blowing out PART of the shoulder...

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

6mm PPC case holds roughly 30gr of water he says 5-8gr can be gained with his design. So a case that holds at most 38gr of water, a 150gr bullet a 20 inch barrel can get 2600-2650fps at 52k max psi...I just don't see it happening.

 

[Varminterror]

6mm PPC case holds roughly 30gr of water he says 5-8gr can be gained with his design. So a case that holds at most 38gr of water, a 150gr bullet a 20 inch barrel can get 2600-2650fps at 52k max psi...I just don't see it happening.

He's saying - rather - not 5-8grn more WATER capacity, but 5-8grn more POWDER is what is stated above...

 

[The inventer]

Just to clarify, are you saying you get a 5-8 grain increase in H20 case capacity after fireforming X39 brass, or when using fireformed 6mm ppc brass compared to standard X39 brass? A 14-22% gain in case capacity just from blowing out the shoulder seams a lot.

I used powder to measure and to be honest I was surprised at how much velocity I did get I was hoping for 300 fps additional but got 4-500 fps out of a 20” barrel the people who have bought it love it, one person bought 2. My pastor has 2 and was a died in the wool bolt gun man and he finally got a 6.5 Grendel and later switched it to the Yahweh because of the additional power. In his review he calls the Grendel the little sister to the Yahweh, not my words but his and he uses 39 cases exclusively. You can go on my website and read it for yourself; and see a very nice black tail buck.

 

[Nature Boy]

Can @The inventer post a pic of the cartridge or even a diagram? There’s not one on the website

 

[Varminterror]

Food for thought, for those playing the home game...

6.8 SPC has 55kpsi MAP, and only achieves ~2550-2600fps with 120 grain bullets from 36grn H2O capacity cases. The 6.5 Grendel has a SAAMI MAP of 52kpsi, and only achieves ~2550 with 123's... 6mm Dasher has a case capacity of 42.0grn and is typically considered to have a MAP (not SAAMI) of 52kpsi, and pushes 105/108/107 class bullets to 2950fps... 30 BR has a case capacity of 41.2grn H2O, and only pushes a 125grn bullet to 2760fps at 58.5kpsi... ALL of these with 24" barrels...

It may seem trivial if we're talking about 2650 with a 150 in this imagined cartridge vs. a 125 at 2760, but remember, 25grn is a LOT more bullet, and it takes a LOT of pressure increase to get a little more velocity. Swapping powders to slower burn rates doesn't create a "90 degree" sustained pressure as this guy is claiming, we can shift the peak farther down barrel, but we're not talking about adding 300fps under the same max pressure, and if we WERE, then we'd be able to do almost all of that without blowing out the shoulders...

I can follow up with more math to define the maximum case capacity possible from the x39 case later, but just playing around a bit this afternoon... REMINDING - blowing a 6mm BR out to a Dasher, which moves the shoulder forward ~120 thou and blows out from 30 degree to 40degree, and doing so only adds FOUR (4) grains of H2O capacity... If I add 4.2grn H2O to the x39 case and seat a 150 SST to 2.5" (only seating .145" into the case neck), it would take 42.6grn of H4350 (which I'm fairly sure won't fit into the case, since I know it doesn't fit into my Dasher cases which are LARGER) to get that bullet to 2648fps, and the peak pressure would be 63.8kpsi... 40.3grn Leverevolution would get 2650 with that bullet, but it would be 58kpsi... 46.1grn of SuperPerformance would get it to 2640, but would be 68kpsi...



Just spinning numbers a bit, and even giving the benefit of the doubt to use Leverevolution, getting to 2650 at 52kpsi would take 46.5grn H2O case capacity, and considering that we're starting with 35.8grn, that means we have to blow out taper and PART of the shoulder angle to gain more than 10 grn H2O capacity... And again, reminding readers, we only gain 4grn H2O when we blow FORWARD the 6 BR to make 6 Dasher.... maybe not so surprisingly for folks familiar with cartridge design, 46.5grn is about halfway between 7.62x39mm (35.8grn H2O) and 308winchester (56.3grn H2O), so maybe we shouldn't be surprised it takes that much cartridge capacity to bring a 52kpsi cartridge up from the x39 standard of 2100fps with a 150 grain bullet to approach 2650fps with the same bullet... We're not getting 46.5grn H2O capacity by blowing out the taper and part of the shoulder in the 7.62 Blasphemer.