870 HD and 807 Police - again

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Slater

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I'm looking to eventually get an 870P for HD purposes and range/target practice. I was discussing this with a guy at work and he said the "It's dumb to spend the extra money on the Police model when the HD model will do the same thing".

I suppose he's got a point, although the Police model has a few extra points in it's favor like overall fit and finish and some higher grade parts. I guess I just like the better overall quality.

What would be a good response to this observation?
 
The response is, would you like to own a cheap Chevy, or given the choice, a Cadillac?

The Police model is Remington's top-of-the-line in defense guns, and the best defense pump shotgun in the world.
True, the Express gun will project lead as well, but it isn't up to the Police gun in quality, smoothness, or durability.
The Express is like all 870's, a VERY durable, reliable gun, but the Police goes the extra 100 miles to insure that an officer can depend on the gun in all conditions.

The Express has a rougher, less durable finish, while the Police is ultra-smooth, and given a tough military-grade parkerized finish.
The Express bore is not as smooth and well finished and is harder to clean than the Police's polished bore.
The Express has some burrs, especially internally that can cut fingers.
The Police has no burrs.

As added ammo, here's what Remington's Law Enforcement division says about the standard the Police is built to:

REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models.
Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.


So, the bottom line is, if you have a choice between the Chevy and the Cadillac, and you can afford the Caddy, why settle for the Chevy?
True, the Chevy will get you there, but the Caddy will do it even more reliably, smoother, and in style.
 
Well....

When I was buying, I didn't have any money, so I bought the HD.

So far, these changes have been made:

Knoxx Specops stock
Wilson combat mag spring/follower
3 point sling
Speedfeed short fore end
tacstar sidesaddle

The "roughness" doesn't worry me. It now has about 1000 rounds through it without any snags, and it is smoothing up. IMO, the "burrs", etc. and any roughness are non-factors.

The plastic trigger housing doesn't concern me either. My glock 19 has a plastic frame and it has held up fine. I may change it out some day, but why?

I could change out a couple internal springs and basically make it a police model, and I may, but the HD is great the way it is.

My next move will be removal of the j safety and ghost rings or big dot sights.

IMO, Remington made the right decisions to bring the price down but keep the quality exceedingly high with the express.
 
I have the Express 18 inch with the +2 Rem tube and I love it.
Several PD's and SO's here in South Florida issue the Express as a Patrol shotgun. I don't think that there is really that much difference between the Police and HD versions other than the J lock (which I replaced) and cost. If I get another one someday it will be an Express.
 
Bottom line is, they are both 870s.

There are some differences, sure. I'm not one to say that by any objective standard the 870P is not a better gun than the Express- it is.

Question is, how much difference does that difference make in the real world? All I can say is, not much as far as practical use is concerned- in my humble opinion of course. Other folks are apt to disagree violently- I don't have a problem with that. For the record I've been shooting 870s for about 40 years now. I think i know the platform pretty well at this point.

Current production Express guns have done away with the occasionally-self-locking safety, so the worst objection to the Express (though it was easily and cheaply fixable) is now gone. The plastic trigger plate should not prove to be any more problematic than the aluminum version. If you're a belt and two sets of suspenders sort, you might want to replace the MIM extractor on the Express with a milled version just to make yourself feel better. I still run the issue extractors in the Expresses here, to include the ones that do daily duty as house guns.

There are different reasons for different people to prefer the Police over the Express. I am not going to say those reasons are not valid- obviously they are for anyone who invests in the decision. For me, an Express gun is plenty of shotgun. I do have a Police gun also, actually I have three of them if you count the 70's era Wingmasters that were not marked as Police guns.

Another detail FWIW- in all this time, I have yet to buy a brand new 870. Every one I have ever owned- approaching a couple of dozen at this point, I don't know how many there have been- were bought used. I ordered a new Police gun for myself as a 50th birthday present, the distributor shipped a model different than the one I ordered, and i sent it back. That's as close as I have come to owning a new 870. At this point I may well finish out my days without buying one new.

Understand that I am not one to tie up my ego in the things that i own and use. I drive a pickup truck (a 2000 Nissan Frontier). I wear blue jeans and tee shirts and New Balance walking shoes, given a choice. I don't wear a watch- I stopped worrying about what time it was when i retired, but the watch I took off and put in my dresser is a blackface Seiko self-winding dive watch with a stainless steel band. I like 870s because of their durability and reliability, and the fact that you can get good used ones for less than $200 is to me an advantage, not something to be regarded with shame.

I'm not about to tell you what you should do. But to me, an Express is plenty of 870. You've made the important decision already, to get an 870. From there on it's only incidentals to consider. Good luck with it,

lpl/nc (curmudgeon in training)
 
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