I bought a nice AK from a reputable dealer. I'm sure it meets compliance, but what worries me is it came with a US built Mag. How can I tell if I have enough compliance parts to use imported magazines. I know I need 6 but how can I tell which parts were made in the US? nothing is stamped USA. And if I can't tell how could the batfe?
922(r) compliance question, how can you tell?
- Thread starter Torghn
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Look closely at the receiver, muzzle attachment (if any), gas piston, trigger / hammer / disconnector, and pistol grip. Also look closely at the buttstock and forearm handguards.
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=80
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=80
The pistol grip looks a lot like the common compliance parts sold, but it's definitely not labeled? The buttock and forearm hand guards don't look like the normal imports either but they could have just been refinished.
I guess what I'm getting at, is there a way to know for sure, and if there's not how can this law ever be enforced? (Conversely can they claim you're out of compliance just because it's not 100% clear that you are in compliance)
I guess what I'm getting at, is there a way to know for sure, and if there's not how can this law ever be enforced? (Conversely can they claim you're out of compliance just because it's not 100% clear that you are in compliance)
I'd just shoot your gun and not worry about it. Nobody checks these things and, unless they are already investigating you for other weapons-related charges, they will never find out.
I think this law is more intended to be enforced upon the people selling firearms rather than the individual purchasers.
I think this law is more intended to be enforced upon the people selling firearms rather than the individual purchasers.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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Just get your own hammer and stamp that says Made in USA. Go to town. How's the gubmint gonna tell? I'm not aware of any law which says that it's illegal to stamp Made in USA on something.
DMK
Member
Well, if you are in enough trouble with the Feds that they are considering 9.22r violations, then they have already tossed your house for evidence and found that stamp.
In fact a search warrant is usually the first indication most folks have that they are in trouble.
nwilliams
Member
I personally don't worry about it, I don't think there has ever been a case where anyone has been prosecuted for having five US made parts on their rifle instead of six
922r is one of obscure and bizarre laws that I tend to put on the back burner now. Until I hear of anyone getting prosecuted for breaking compliance I'm not going to sweat over it. The fact is there are undoubtedly millions of gun owners across America who probably own guns that are out of compliance and who have never even heard of 922r. I never knew about it until I joined THR and I know I owned guns for many years before that were not in compliance.
Now that I know about the law I try to abide by it as best I can, but its not something I take very seriously. If the Feds ever decide to take apart all my guns and count the US parts then they must be really desperate to pin something on me.
922r is one of obscure and bizarre laws that I tend to put on the back burner now. Until I hear of anyone getting prosecuted for breaking compliance I'm not going to sweat over it. The fact is there are undoubtedly millions of gun owners across America who probably own guns that are out of compliance and who have never even heard of 922r. I never knew about it until I joined THR and I know I owned guns for many years before that were not in compliance.
Now that I know about the law I try to abide by it as best I can, but its not something I take very seriously. If the Feds ever decide to take apart all my guns and count the US parts then they must be really desperate to pin something on me.
That's exactly how I see it as well. Companies like Century probably take it very seriously because they are more likely to be prosecuted for manufacturing guns using foreign parts. The government would expect that they be up to date with laws like 922r, whereas the average gun buyer probably would not.
Thanks for the info, it seems like a dumb law to me, but I always try to be as law abiding as possible. I think I read somewhere that it was a misdemeanor to manufacture a rifle out of compliance but they could only confiscate and not prosecute for possessions. Is there any truth to this?
In other words, if you insert an imported magazine into a non-922(r) compliant AK, you are committing a federal felony punishable by up to 5 years in prison.
So, are you interested in figuring out if your AK is 922(r) compliant, or are you just wasting our time?
U.S. companies manufacturing 922r compliance parts for AKs stamp some variation of "Made in the U.S." on the parts. For example, the TAPCO G2 trigger says "TAPCO USA." Nobody would purchase a U.S. compliance part if they couldn't prove it was made in the U.S. when questioned. If the AK part doesn't say "Made in the U.S." it's safe to assume it isn't.
nwilliams
Member
I'd like to see them try and convict me or anyone of this, seriously I just don't think it would happen. Not saying it couldn't happen I just think the likelihood is so remote I'm willing to not sweat over it. If they convicted everyone who unknowingly violates this law there would be a lot of people wondering why they are in jail
Funderb
Member
that only applies to changing a fixed mag with a removable hi cap, does it not? I think you are reading way way too far into that law.
What about e-mailing or calling the dealer you got it from and telling them you want the manufacturer info for the compliance parts in case 922R ever comes up.
eg. Tapco stock and pistol grip, Tapco fire control group.. etc. You could look at them online to verify that's what they are.
eg. Tapco stock and pistol grip, Tapco fire control group.. etc. You could look at them online to verify that's what they are.
I don't like to play this card, but I work for attorneys practicing Federal criminal law. 18 U.S.C. 922(r) applies to individuals. This is not debatable. "Any person" in a Federal statute or regulation means "any person." "Assemblling" is also defined by the statute to include inserting a noncompliant magazine. This is self-evident from the text of the statute and related BATF regulations. If a magazine counts towards the parts count for assembly, then inserting a noncompliant magazine is "assembling."
This is NOT a "debatable" topic. I do not advise posting your intent to ignore Federal law on a public internet forum.
This is NOT a "debatable" topic. I do not advise posting your intent to ignore Federal law on a public internet forum.
I think that you will find that 922r is a bootstrap offense. When someone is arrested for a federal crime where a firearm is involved as many charges as possible are brought. The weapon comes under scrutiny at that point and a count may well be done. I would have to doubt whether a 922r violation is going to be brought against the average otherwise law-abiding citizen. The BATFE has much bigger fish to fry.
That said, 922r is the law and we should make every attempt possible to comply. It's how many firearms come to us that would otherwise be banned. Stupid law? You betcha, but you've got to ask yourself whether it is worth it to take the risk. Besides, a whole "industry" has sprung up around 922r compliance and those folks need to put food on their table. It seems like compliance has become a niche hobby in and of itself, definitely one with a love/hate relationship.
That said, 922r is the law and we should make every attempt possible to comply. It's how many firearms come to us that would otherwise be banned. Stupid law? You betcha, but you've got to ask yourself whether it is worth it to take the risk. Besides, a whole "industry" has sprung up around 922r compliance and those folks need to put food on their table. It seems like compliance has become a niche hobby in and of itself, definitely one with a love/hate relationship.
Ash
Member
A problem can arise when some parts are not US marked but are US made. Gas piston, pistol grip, and muzzle devices sometimes are not marked but are US made. The rifle would be legal but difficult to prove.
Ash
Ash
DMK
Member
I have a Century Built SAR1. Supposedly, the gas piston, pistol grip and trigger parts (3) are the US made compliance parts. I've looked and can't find any markings on the gas piston and pistol grip.
The real trouble comes when you try to change parts. I bought a more ergonomic pistol grip for the AK a while back. It also had no markings, but I found the box said "made in china" so I couldn't use it. Harder to find replacement parts that are made in the USA these days.
The real trouble comes when you try to change parts. I bought a more ergonomic pistol grip for the AK a while back. It also had no markings, but I found the box said "made in china" so I couldn't use it. Harder to find replacement parts that are made in the USA these days.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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Guys, when you order your Made in USA stamp, be sure to also order this symbol next to Made in USA, to assist BATFE in evaluating compliance:
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/430062/2/istockphoto_430062_middle_finger.jpg
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/430062/2/istockphoto_430062_middle_finger.jpg
My bottom line is that it's cheap and easy to be certain you're compliant. It's hard and expensive to defend yourself if you aren't.
Something as trivial as a traffic stop done while you're transporting a firearm could cascade in to a 922r violation. Why mess around with it?
Something as trivial as a traffic stop done while you're transporting a firearm could cascade in to a 922r violation. Why mess around with it?
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