SAAMI pressure for standard .45ACP is 21,000 CUP and .45ACP +P is only 23,000 CUP. Standard pressure for the .40 S&W is 35,000 CUP. There is no recognized +P pressure level for .40 S&W. So, the .45 makes it's 550 ft lbs at only 23,000 CUP pressure limit, 12,000 CUP lower than the .40 S&W working pressure. The larger head size of the .45 case does limit effective working pressure of the case. But, there is no safe level of pressure over its standard loads so your argument that you can "+P a .40" is false. Even the PROOF pressure of the .45ACP (31K to 33K CUP) is lower than the .40s WORKING pressure.
You beat me to the punch.
I'd just like to add that any .40 owners out there should be really skeptical of any ammo manufacture that markets +P .40 Smith and Wesson ammunition. As mentioned above, there is no officially recognized standard for a +P .40 S&W. According to SAAMI, there is no such animal. You are buying ammo beyond that which your brass and your weapon was designed to take in any sort of quantity, and it will increase wear...period. There is no argument here, despite the manufactures claim to the contrary. Buying +P .40 from anyone is like buying the unlabeled gun show special reloads from know-it-all Billy Bob behind the counter. You use it at your risk.
I will reiterate: it is much easier to download a 10mm to .40 Smith and Wesson performance than it is to nuke out your .40 and try to turn it into a 10mm Auto.
I did say the .40 has better stopping power then the 10mm. I did not however say the .40 has better ballistics. The 10mm does have better ballistics. If you shoot a 175 gr winchester silvertip from a 10mm with a least a 5.5 inch barrel you get 1290 fps and 626 ft.lbs of energy as you know that is more ft.lbs of energy then a 125gr .357 magnum, which is the best stopper out there. Problem is it still has less stopping power then the .357 mag and any number of rounds for the .40 caliber. Go look it up on the internet. [My only guess is that it over penetrates and passes thru the BG? That's just my guess] Because when I was wanting to purchase auto-loaders for the first time I saw the ballistics on a 10mm and thought too myself I got to have me one of those. After further research I saw the .40 was the best stopper of the auto-loaders. Yes, even the .45 with the exception of the 230 gr hydra-shok load. The other thing that got me to buy the .40 was 15 rounds in the mag and 1 in the chamber. Also the fact that it is the most popular caliber with LE-- so more ammo choices, better prices for ammo, more gun makers carry a .40 [a lot of gun makers do not even sell them] I believe you could hunt with a 10mm so that makes it more versatile. But I am not a hunter. I am ex LE [undercover narc detective] So my interest was for personal defense and I love to shoot auto's. I am 50 years old and when I was in LE we used revolvers for undercover and I am just fascinated by autos. Wish they were more popular and reliable back when I was having shootouts with scum that could care less who they killed. I really Love the .45 too! I was shot with one though and it shattered my right hip. [so I can witness to the destructive power of the .45]
If you would like to continue this little conflict, let me know. We will take it to private messages.
In the meantime I wish you and your's the best!
If you would like to explain how this is possible, I'd love to hear how you can form any reasonable explanation. Perhaps you're one of those mis-led individuals that thinks exit wounds are bad and a waste of energy. Shoot some living things with a high powered rifle and you begin to realize that energy and hydrostatic shock don't mean nearly as much to the critter on the receiving end as they do to you. Energy is fine. It makes bullets expand, which destroys tissue. But this can't be relied on to stop something unless it destroys the CNS. Barring CNS hits, the only way to reliably stop an attacker is to lower their blood pressure. And it is a fact that two holes bleed better than one. Still, if you don't like exit wounds, shoot a 135 gr Nosler JHP out at 1600 fps. Problem solved.
The simple fact of the matter is, and it is physical fact, that if one cartridge shoots bullet "A" out at velocity "v," and another cartridge shoots bullet "A" out at velocity "v," they have identical "stopping power," in whatever way you attempt to quantify it. You can stammer and studder all you want, but you can't present a logical, supported argument against this. Now, if you quantify "stopping power" in any of the usual methods--velocity, mass, energy, momentum, penetration, expansion, or any combination of these factors, the 10mm Auto shooting bullet "A" at faster velocity "V" clearly exceeds that of the .40 S&W and matchs or exceeds most loads from a .357 Magnum with a similar barrel length. For example, there are several main factors in determining an object's penetration--it's construction, the target's construction, the projectile's Sectional Density, and the projectile's momentum. So given the target's construction remains the same, in this case, your hip, and given two bullets of equal design or construction, that leaves us with SD and momentum. For SDs we have:
.357 cal 125 gr JHP = .140
.357 cal 140 gr JHP = .157
.40 cal 150 gr JHP = .134
.40 cal 180 gr JHP = .161
.451 cal 230 gr JHP = .161
Now momentum = mass * velocity. So we get:
.357 Magnum-- 125 gr * 1600 fps = 200,000 gr * fps
.357 Magnum-- 140 gr * 1400 fps = 196,000 gr * fps
.40 S&W------ 150 gr * 1310 fps = 196,500 gr * fps
.40 S&W------ 180 gr * 1155 fps = 207,900 gr * fps
10mm Auto--- 150 gr * 1475 fps = 221,250 gr * fps
10mm Auto--- 180 gr * 1300 fps = 234,000 gr * fps
.45 ACP +P--- 230 gr * 950 fps = 218,500 gr * fps
All of these going in the same direction...I tried to pick velocities representative of what the cartridge is capable of at its potential. Most of the velocities were obtained from Double Tap's wesbite with the exception of the 140 gr .357 Magnum, which was taken from Sierra's manual, with an additional 50 fps tacked on just to keep you from saying your pet .357 Magnum was represented unfairly. Also, the velocities for the 150 gr were taken from Double Tap's 155 gr Gold Dot loads. You know what the .45 ACP feels like, and in terms of momentum it is superior to both the .40 and the .357 Magnum. However, the 10mm Auto has identical SD and beats it in not only momentum, but also in energy. Since these are almost always regarded as the two most important factors of your mythical "stopping power," do you seriously want to try argue the .40 or the .45 is superior to the 10mm? You're going to have a hard time coming up with any logical evidence or physical support, but I could use the laugh, so go ahead and try.
The second problem with this comes from how you quantify "stopping power." There is no such physical unit as "stopping power." You can watch street results, but the 10mm, by no fault of its own, doesn't have the popularity to give you an adequate sample size in this method. If you take beginner statistics, you learn that the larger your sample size is, the more accurate your results are likely to be. The 10mm doesn't have the military history, the advertising hype, or the company endorsement on its case head like its competition. It does have a whole lot of performance though, and that is what has kept it alive long after the critics claimed it would have faded into obscurity. You can study geletin results, and the 10mm holds it own here too, but these tests also have their faults. People aren't homogenous substances. And autopsy reports continue to show that because of this, bullet performance is far less predictable in living tissue than in geletin some even the most advanced JHPs showing little or no expansion in some cases. One thing is clear enough to have been accepted as a physical law of the universe, however--increasing an objects velocity, or rather energy, increases the chances that it will expand regardless of shot angle or presentation.
What you need to do is let go of your white knuckle death grip on some chart, stop chanting "stopping power" like you're in a cult, and realize that there is no clear definition of such a term, and when you consider logically multiple sources and the laws of physics, you realize how rediculous it sounds claiming that the .40 S&W shooting a 180 gr HydraShok JHP @ 1000 fps has more "stopping power" than a 10mm Auto shooting a 180 gr HydraShok JHP @ a nearly identical 1030 fps. HAHA. I have to laugh just typing it. And if you can prove it is true, you belong next to Stephen Hawking solving a lot bigger mysteries than "stopping power."
O and I see no reason to continue this conversation in private. In fact, while it might be entertaining to see a rebuttal from you, I don't really care if we continue this at all because your assumptions are absurd.
