9mm + Budget Equipment = Unreasonable Results?

[Click_Here]

Hi All,

9mm. Yup. Here we go again.
Its been several months since ive handloaded 9mm and Im reminded that I should not be expecting perfection with the equipment and components at hand. (LEE)

How unreasonable is it to expect a perfect plunk test every single time?
For discussions sake im using MHS brass, U-sized die, Lee seating die and FCD. I see no difference using same head stamp brass. I will get a good plunk and then not a good plunk.

This is just me but I've gone ahead and shot the ones that didnt perfectly plunk but fell out of the chamber with just a sneeze of pressure. Anyone else in the same boat or do you put those ones aside? If I did this about 25% of my finished carts will be put in the no plunk bucket.

 

[powwowell]

What crimp die are you using? The Lee Factory Crimp Die will fix your problem.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Hi All,

9mm. Yup. Here we go again.
Its been several months since ive handloaded 9mm and Im reminded that I should not be expecting perfection with the equipment and components at hand. (LEE)

How unreasonable is it to expect a perfect plunk test every single time?
For discussions sake im using MHS brass but I see no difference using same head stamp brass. I will get a good plunk and then not a good plunk.

This is just me but I've gone ahead and shot the ones that didnt perfectly plunk but fell out of the chamber with just a sneeze of pressure. Anyone else in the same boat or do you put those ones aside? If I did this about 25% of my finished carts will be put in the no plunk bucket.

I’ve used various brands of equipment successfully. Regardless of equipment, if a cartridge doesn’t plunk, I figure out the problem and fix it before I continue.

 

[Click_Here]

What crimp die are you using? The Lee Factory Crimp Die will fix your problem.

That is included in what I am using. Using all Lee components. LCT and dies.

My best thought is the lack of tight tolerance in the shell holder and Seating die causing some poor seating. Upon close inspection there are some rounds where I can SEE a slight bulge of the bullet base in the case.

 

[Click_Here]

I’ve used various brands of equipment successfully. Regardless of equipment, if a cartridge doesn’t plunk, I figure out the problem and fix it before I continue.

So back to my original topic. What happens if its a 50/50 plunk? I'll accept that Im the only one that this is happening too and go back to drawing board to figure this out but I dont think I am.....i hope not....

 

[Walkalong]

What crimp die are you using? The Lee Factory Crimp Die will fix your problem.

Maybe

 

[CQB45ACP]

So back to my original topic. What happens if its a 50/50 plunk? I'll accept that Im the only one that this is happening too and go back to drawing board to figure this out but I dont think I am.....i hope not....

It was your original topic. You’ve identified a problem, asked if others have it and if so what would they do. If/when I did, I fixed it. What you do is up to you. No mystery.

 

[Walkalong]

So back to my original topic. What happens if its a 50/50 plunk?

Fat bullets. Crooked bullets. Fat bullets in thick cases. Over "crimping". The 9MM only needs enough taper "crimp" to remove the belling, neck tension holds the bullet.

Figure out the issue and fix it, don't just squeeze it to fit with the FCD.

 

[nettlle]

Is a Lee factory crimp die a bad tool?

 

[Walkalong]

It's a tool to be used after you have learned to load straight ammo that chambers without it, for insurance that you don't have an issue in a match, or you gauge all your loaded rounds, or both.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

That is included in what I am using. Using all Lee components. LCT and dies.

My best thought is the lack of tight tolerance in the shell holder and Seating die causing some poor seating. Upon close inspection there are some rounds where I can SEE a slight bulge of the bullet base in the case.

For discussions sake im using MHS brass

No shell holder will get all the way down to the base. It has to hold onto something. That said, have you plunked after sizing? If you get a good plunk fresh from the sizing die but nogo after seating then it’s probably not your brass.

If it is your brass and you are using brass which has been loaded over pressure - +P+ - then you will have to resize the bases. One way is to use the Lee 9mm Mak FCD “Bulge Buster” kit. The other way is to use a Lee Classic Loader kit - just to size the bases of over expanded base brass.

Try plunking straight from the sizing die and see if you get any fails. If not, look at your seating depth and neck thickness - some brass is really thick and that can cause plunking problems.

 

[nettlle]

It's a tool to be used after you have learned to load straight ammo that chambers without it, for insurance that you don't have an issue in a match, or you gauge all your loaded rounds, or both.

I understand. The die can only cover for so many sins.

 

[Zendude]

Are you using a Wilson case gauge?

 

[nettlle]

If it's not plunking it's not going to pass a case gauge. Barrels are more forgiving than case gauges.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

It's not a bad tool, but it can create an idea that if you don't understand how to fix your reloading problem, you just buy one of these and they will make your problem go away. That all you have to do is run it through one of these dies and forget the whole " How do I do this right" thing, or why am I having problems with my ammo in my guns.

They have their place, but like Walkalong said, you need to know why your having the problem in the first place, how to correct it, and not just use the FCD as a crutch to fix a problem that you don't understand.
If you use one of these to catch that out-lyer case that will tie up your gun, in your thousands of rounds that your loading for a competition, this is probably a good use for some cheap insurance.

 

[nettlle]

Maybe we (or mostly me) are getting off track a bit and if so I apologize. I agree with both you and Walkalong. Let me explain why I bought a Lee Factory Crimp die. I reload mixed range brass. The cheapest brass I can buy. Out of about every (300) or so reloaded I was getting 3-4 that wouldn't plunk. They would cause a failure to return to battery on one of my 9mm 1911's. Not my CZ's which will digest about anything but my Dan Wesson Vigil. Not a serious situation but I don't like doing "rework" on my reloads. The Lee FCD on my Dillon 550 took care of those 3-4 out of every (300) that I was having problems with. And I do case gauge every round.

 

[NMexJim]

A gazillion loads have been made successfully with Lee equipment. I would guarantee that it’s not an equipment problem you’re dealing with. Walkalong has made some good comment that bear re-reading.

When I have a loading problem, I tear everything back down and start over. I clean dies, I check the press, all of the equipment. Then, I start again with the instructions in one hand and a pair of caliper near to hand to check brass at each step. It works every time, and I always learn something new when I’m done.

The sizer die will set bullet holding pressure. The expander should only expand enough to allow easy seating of a bullet. Crimping at least for cases that seat on the case mouth is a product of twice the brass mouth thickness plus the bullet diameter.

If it chambers, shoot that sucker. You will get better as you go. There is an endless amount of threads on this forum for the subject to help you out.

Photo, dimensions, component data all help us help you.

 

[Larry in wyoming]

U sized die =undersized die? And you're still having problems plunking? But they still shoot ok? All of them?

 

[Click_Here]

They all plunk 100% just fine after sizing in any of my barrels. Its just a noticeable problem with a finished cartridge loading for the CZ barrel.

It doesnt make sense to me to have everything right over and over and over, getting an occasional non plunker and then say....crap I better go back and start all over since I got a couple that didn't plunk.

I have a feeling the ones that are not plunking are not seating straight. Im not a machine so hand placing each bullet, im going to get one off kilter but I would expect that it once it engages with the seating die, it would maybe straighten itself out.

The FCD setting Im at is just removing the bell from the powder drop step. Its barely doing anything but I can almost tell when I run one through and theres a slight bit more resistance that "this one isnt going to plunk"

 

[Click_Here]

U sized die =undersized die? And you're still having problems plunking? But they still shoot ok? All of them?

Yes, 100% shoot just fine, cycle fine, all of them, even the non-plunkers.

 

[oncewaslost]

Maybe check your over all length. You might be right on the border of being too long for that CZ.

 

[Blue68f100]

Flip the round over and see if the base goes in case gauge. It's not uncommon for the rim to get damaged in a simi-auto.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Its just a noticeable problem with a finished cartridge loading for the CZ barrel.

Just for the CZ. That’s a very important piece of information. CZ’s are famous for having short throats. Overall length variations have been known to cause chambering problems with CZ’s. But, you said you’re not having chambering issues, just a few sticky rounds. They fit going in but need a tap to get out.

Complete non-issue. It could be a dozen things - OAL variations, bullet profile variations, base bulges, bent rims, case length variations… lots of things that don’t matter can cause a case not to fall free from the chamber - including an oily chamber, btw.

Don’t change your setups, just learn to recognize minor differences and distinguish between a show stopper and a non issue.

 

[Click_Here]

Maybe check your over all length. You might be right on the border of being too long for that CZ.

I think you're right!...I just finished 20 rounds.
115gr RMR Nuke's
Going for 1.06 OAL for this barrel.


Out of the 20, 3 did not plunk. They were longer than the rest in the thousands.
These non plunkers measured
1.067
1.068
1.068

The rest were all 1.066 and 1.065

Should I expect that 3 thou difference and set the die to seat a few thou lower or go buy a better seating die?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I think you're right!...I just finished 20 rounds.
115gr RMR Nuke's
Going for 1.06 OAL for this barrel.


Out of the 20, 3 did not plunk. They were longer than the rest in the thousands.
These non plunkers measured
1.067
1.068
1.068

The rest were all 1.066 and 1.065

Should I expect that 3 thou difference and set the die to seat a few thou lower or go buy a better seating die?

The Lee seating die is a perfectly good die. It’s not the die. Just seat to your target length of 1.060” and recheck.